How important are A stars at A level?

[Stopsnowing]

Most of the sixth forms we have visited are clearly encouraging the students to only take A levels in the subjects they are best at and some of them have minimum gcse requirements of a 7 at gcse. If a 7 is an A it seems a real shame to me that students are being discouraged from taking the subjects they are ok at any further.
my ds got a 7 in French mock gcse and was told not to do a level in it because he would only get a b at a level and he should focus on doing subjects at a level he could get a stars in.
so my question is is it the case that you need to aim for a stars at a level? And is it true that 7 in a mock gcse means you will get a b at a level?

A levels are only really useful if you want to go to uni. The need to get particular grades are due to unis wanting those to offer a place.
The reality is, once uni is done, no-one is interested in your A-levels.

Schools wants people capable of doing well because it impacts their data.

Agree it's all about what the student wants to do at university so they need to think of a combination of things they are interested in and what the requirements are of the unis they want to apply to.

If your DC wanted to do astrophysics at Oxford then a B in French isn't going to help if they could have had an a* in further maths.

A stars are important if the child wants to go to a university that requires a stars. It’s as simple as that.

but not everyone can get a stars. Only the top tiny percentage in each subject are awarded them so it’s important not to make it the be all and end all. Whether your child achieves an a star is dependent both on how well they do but crucially also how well the rest of the cohort does. It is not entirely within their control.

Also A levels are a big step up from gcse. If someone works hard and gets a 7, then they may struggle with an a level in that subject.

So do the ‘best’ unis require A stars at A level?

(I went to a top uni back in the day with a B)

does It boil down to - if you really want to study a subject you will get a B in at A level you can but you will end up at a less prestigious or competitive uni?

and does a 7 at gcse mean you can’t achieve an A at A level? Perhaps I am being naive.

Ok that makes sense.

I don’t remember A levels being a big step up from o levels but again that was a long time ago!

I'd say it depends on the subject. It's a 9 and the FSMQ to take A level maths at our school. They'd also discourage physics or chemistry on a similar basis as they're difficult A levels. Languages aren't dissimilar I guess.

English may be somewhat of an exception as some of the GCSE syllabus is shorter style questions and you might become a fantastic essay writer in your sixth form.

I think people aim to get the highest grade they can, partly as the application process is very competitive for the most popular unis. I know students who didn't get in as they slipped to an A in one of their A levels. But you cut your cloth to suit your means and apply to a university you have a hope of getting the grades for.

I'm a long way into my career and A level grades are still asked for. Clearly degree and career experience are more important but a good set of A level grades can be useful (I'm in financial services).

This isn't true, I got a trainee accountant job based on A-levels only, as did my niece who works in a big 4 accountancy firm and went there straight from school.

Hi op, I would say someone who achieved a 7 in MFL (my subject) would be more than capable of taking the A level. Their A level grade is of course not a given, but I would expect them to be looking at around a B, yes, depending on many factors.

My ds got 8 in maths and a B at A level.

It depends where he wants to go at uni and to some extent what course. The most popular unis do ask for A stars for some courses. Have a look online.

But equally, I know plenty of students who went to RG unis without any A stars. Ds had RG offers of AAB and ABB. He’s at Lboro (not RG! But very highly rated) but if he were studying sports science there, he would have needed A star AA.

Don’t stress too much about it - most students don’t gain A stars. He should take the subjects he enjoys that he will do best in, and that will help him towards the uni course he wants, if appropriate.

Some A levels are famously hard.

Others are more accessible.

Someone with a 7 in maths, for example, would probably be allowed to do maths A level but is likely to find it difficult. They will need to work very hard, and are unlikely to get good grades.

MFL A levels are also notoriously hard and require a lot of work.

There are quite a lot of students who don't always appreciate precisely how hard A levels can be. They often start, don't work very hard and then there is a lot of pastoral support needed as the student does badly in tests etc, asks for extra support from the teachers, parents get involved and have discussions about how much work is needed at home etc.

Some sixth forms are happy to put in that work and give the students the extra support they need to succeed.

Other sixth forms have students queueing up who are capable of working independently and are keen for the opportunity, so they don't want to get involved with the kind of student who is likely to struggle to adjust.

And yes, if you want to get into the really good unis you need a stars.

It's really competitive these days.

Does he have any idea what he might want to study at university? I would look at the entry requirements of a range of universities for courses he might want to study. Language degrees dont tend to ask for a stars even at the top universities but maths and computer science do.

See I think that's a bit misleading tbh. For some subjects, maybe many subjects, at some unis, yes A stars or one A star is needed. But DD had AAB for Warwick, only a few years ago, and a friend's DD studied engineering at Sheffield and was asked for AAA or maybe AAB.

But yes, economics at LSE or maths at Oxford will need A stars.

A stars are important for some Universities, but you don't need all A stars even for Oxbridge.

More prestigious ones will want As though. Things have changed since we went to University. I got two Medical School offers with 3 Bs but that wouldn't happen now.

Lots of Universities offer French degrees if she wanted to go further than A Level, and not all will want A and A star. The content also varies. Some study ancient literature like the equivalent of Chaucer, others are more practical.

Back in the day one of my classmates quietly posted her rejection to Oxford and instead went to a Polytechnic to do French and Business. Last seen in a super top job in Europe.

I wouldn't let your DD be put off doing French A Level if she loves it just because she might get a B.

“The best” is a subjective measure.

all universities want the brightest students and exam results are the best way of assessing this. They don’t really give two hoots about DofE, musical instruments, gymnastics etc, they want super bright kids to get really high grades in their degrees.

if you look at the top ten in the past five years there are some consistent universities appearing in most rankings.

cambridge and oxford
durham
lse
st andrews
warwick

all may ask for A stars in one or more (possibly in all)

Bath, Lancaster, Loughborough

These are not part of the Russell Group marketing consortium so have to work a bit harder to attract kids. They won’t ask for A stars but will still have a lot of kids applying with A star predictions because they are extremely good top ten universities

Bristol and Kings probably will ask for some A stars in many subjects.

You then have the next batch of consistently excellent universities: Edinburgh, Manchester, UCL etc. they might ask for A stars. They are likely to want at least a couple of As even in the least popular courses

then you have those that typically sit in the middle to high teens. These tend to be well known but not at the top. Such as Leeds, Exeter, Nottingham, Surrey. They’ll ask for As for popular courses but not necessarily A stars.

Then you get those which actually consistently rank fairly low down but because they’re a part of the Russell Group still flock to go there such as Newcastle which is massively popular (party place) but doesn’t rank highly. If they are Russel Group they may still ask for As. This is simply because they can due to the power of being in the group. Others which are in similar ranking positions outside the top 20 are probably only going to be wanting Bs.

This is all generalising massively. There is enormous variation and you have to go online and look at the course requirement for each course at each university. Degrees are not consistent like A levels. Each university runs a different degree course. Every university needs to fill its spaces so sometime you’ll get lucky and get in with lower grades or find unexpected courses in clearing. This year for example there

were medicine places and Durham courses in clearing (although they didn’t drop the grade requirements, it’s just that they had spaces because the kids who thought they would be going there hadn’t got the grades).

And no a 7 doesn’t automatically mean a B. It could end up as an A star.. or a D

I got into Russell group with ABC.

DD can't believe it, she will be applying next year and fully expects to need AAA for similar courses.

It's much harder now.

My message did have stars against all the As

50% of a level grades are b or above in 2023. So logically it would get you into an average uni not a top one.

There has been grade inflation since we were at school

@Leftoversgalore it must depend on the courses then.

Both of my DC got offers of A star, A and A for Oxford. That was for Physics a few years ago and Earth Sciences now.

It's all a bit of nonsense really as universities are not independently regulated or checked by anyone. But they all mysteriously cost nine grand a year, regardless.

Also last year's cohort in England may well have produced exam papers that were worthy of A*s and As but the government decided that too many were students getting these grades and they changed the grade boundaries for political reasons.

So you can work your butt off for two years and be predicted top grades all along and then some Tory suit pulls the rug from under you at the last minute. It's an absolute bullshit system.

I do think motivation counts for a lot. If he's motivated to do French then that could go a long way. Get him off to a French summer school and he will come back fluent and ace the a level.

For MFL at university, it's possible to get in with more modest grades.

You then have the next batch of consistently excellent universities: Edinburgh, Manchester, UCL etc. they might ask for A stars. They are likely to want at least a couple of As even in the least popular courses

Not necessarily. DS went to Manchester to do MFL+English with ABC grades, and indeed had offers from all five places he applied. That wasn't what the websites said, but he was possibly lucky. And he then worked his socks off to prove that he was as good as anyone else there.

He got an A rather than A-star for language at GCSE.

Not all universities need to see top grades even for competitive courses. Someone I know just started at Newcastle Uni (2023) studying medicine. Predicted 3 As, top 8% UCAT, but got no offers (in 2022). Then achieved A, B and C at A level. Year out. Reapplied and this time got 2 interviews and was offered a place conditional on resitting the C grade. Resat the C (Chemistry) and got a B. Place confirmed. They did however score very highly on the UCAT (top 5%).

My kids have applied to mainly second tier RG or equivalent universities, for arts and humanities subjects. The offers they received were almost all AAB or ABB and there was an element of flexibility on results day.
But if you want to do economics, law, psychology, computer science etc at a top ten university then yes, you will def need As and A*s - and there is also less leeway if they slip a grade on results day.
MFL degrees do tend to have slightly lower offers because they struggle to attract enough applicants. See also subjects like Theology - friend's son got into Durham with ABB for that (having missed offer by a grade).

That simply isn't true. The proportion of grades was adjusted back down to their normal levels after the covid grades fiasco. They weren't cut, they were retuned towards normal. Nothing to do with Tory wickedness.