How important are A stars at A level?

[Stopsnowing]

Most of the sixth forms we have visited are clearly encouraging the students to only take A levels in the subjects they are best at and some of them have minimum gcse requirements of a 7 at gcse. If a 7 is an A it seems a real shame to me that students are being discouraged from taking the subjects they are ok at any further.
my ds got a 7 in French mock gcse and was told not to do a level in it because he would only get a b at a level and he should focus on doing subjects at a level he could get a stars in.
so my question is is it the case that you need to aim for a stars at a level? And is it true that 7 in a mock gcse means you will get a b at a level?

A stars are important if the child wants to go to a university that requires a stars. It’s as simple as that.

Pretty much sums things up

does It boil down to - if you really want to study a subject you will get a B in at A level you can but you will end up at a less prestigious or competitive uni?

Not for a subject like French

Only one UK uni, Cambridge, requires an A star to study French, although that can be any of an applicants A level subjects, not specifically French.

Only three - Oxford, Durham, and Edinburgh - require all As

St. Andrews standard offer is AAB, but does require an A in French; UCL's standard offer is ABB (but again requires an A in French).

So just six unis where an A grade in French at A level is needed for degree study.

The CUG lists 47 unis (out of 130) as offering French at degree level. Out of the top 20 listed below most are ABB standard offer as shown below. Though not in the top 20 KCL was referenced in an earlier post so I've included it, plus the last uni the ranking.

1 Cambridge A*AA
2 Oxford AAA
3 St. Andrews AAB (does require A in French)
4 York AAB
5 Bristol ABB
6 Durham AAA
7 UCL ABB (does require A in French)
8 Bath ABB
9 Lancaster ABB
10 Nottingham ABB
11 Cardiff ABB-BBB
12 Newcastle ABB
13 Exeter ABB
14 Edinburgh AAA
15 Surrey BBB
16 Warwick ABB
17 Leicester ABB
18 Southampton ABB
19 Birmingham ABB
20 Manchester ABB
23 Kings AAB
47 UCLAN BCC

In terms of A star grades in England just 8.6% of entries were awarded that - obviously lower than in the TAG years, but higher than the 2019 level. the 2023 figure for French was 10.6% at A star As another pp noted overall over 50% of grades were A star-B; however for French it was 66%.

Again in England just 3820 students who took 3 levels got A stars s across the board https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-a-level-results-2023/infographics-for-a-level-results-2023

.https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2023/08/a-level-and-other-level-3-results-2023-the-main-trends-in-grades-and-entries/ gives a good summary of 2023 A level results, and has a subject filter

https://www.jcq.org.uk/examination-results/ provides an excel file with a breakdown by subject and grade 2023 and showing the previous few years to that.

There may be something more recent but https://www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/674348-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2018-2020.pdf shows GCSE to A level progression.

Thanks for all these helpful replies. Have chatted with DS who told me he got an
8 in his mock not a 7!! And he is keen to do French but worries about not speaking it well (shy and never did an exchange). Will look into Summer school. Thank you.

There was no "covid grade fiasco" other than several cohorts of students having their education buggered up by the pandemic, due to the decisions of the utterly appalling DfE and Gavin Williamson.

And then the ones who were hit by it part way through their GCSEs were again fucked over by the government in last year's A-Levels.

The Oxbridge don’t need Astars is a bit misleading.

The offer may not involve A stars but I’d imagine it’s much harder to get an interview without them predicted.

Tbh @Thisvehicle i was just focusing on achieved grades. The importance of As or A stars for predicted grades is another, and interesting, aspect. And Cambridge of course does require an achieved A star in its standard offer for French

as far Oxbridge goes in terms of interview the pre-admission tests will play a key part. so I don’t fully share your imagining on that, although clearly unless a level of confidence in being able to achieve the requisite minimum grade standard not much point in entering for the pre-admission tests in the first place.

Taking Oxford for French is someone who is predicted AAA and then scores highly in MLAT less likely to be selected for interview than the the 3 x A star applicant with a mediocre MLAT score? Other factors such as the PS, low participation neighbourhood, school frequency of having Oxford applicants undoubtedly factor at Oxford, but they can probably better see through some of the high predicted grade BS.

Oxford and Cambridge like every other Uni know that predicted grades are notoriously inaccurate, over 80% being wrong, and massively loaded towards over rather than underpredicting in terms of error.

I would imagine though that few if any who do well in the pre-admission tests are not expected to get some sort of A / A* mix in their actual A level results.

possibly (overly optimistic) predicted grades might have a greater benefit for applicants to the handful unis who want AAA, or perhaps AAB for French. Although I have no actual evidence to support that thought.

Taking Oxford for French is someone who is predicted AAA and then scores highly in MLAT less likely to be selected for interview than the the 3 x A star applicant with a mediocre MLAT score?

Perhaps not but the person predicted AAA and scoring highly in MLAT is less likely to be selected for interview than the person predicted 3 x A stars and scoring highly in MLAT - and the harsh reality is that for oxbridge there are enough of those to fill all available places a few times over.

Hi OP you’ve had some really useful responses here I think. Just to add that your child’s motivation is also really important in my view. My DD did combined science GCSEs - she did get 7/7 (Covid grades not actual exams). However we had never thought of her as a scientist and she started out with humanities A levels and psychology as a new subject. She flew with the psychology and then picked up biology - ended up getting A* in both, but she worked incredibly hard and was genuinely interested in the subjects. My DS1 by contrast is unenthused by his subjects and not really working for them. So I think there are a lot of factors other than GCSE grades that can influence it.

Oxford: 754 MFL candidates and 691 interviewed. Both AAA with high test score and Astar X 3 with high test score will get an interview I think. Thats 22/23 stats. French 371/346 applicants/interviews. Few are not interviewed. Offers - 34% .

I would have thought a 7in French would mean he could easily get an A at A-level.

Not necessarily. Tho the op has said it was an 8 actually.

French A level is challenging, and a big step from GCSE (I mean they all are). Dd went from an A at GCSE to a C at A level; her friend went from GCSE A to B at A level.

There's no "easily " for it. I've known plenty of MFL native speakers who got an A rather than A star.

It depends on so much anyway. A 7 that is just barely a 7 is different from a 7 but really you have the ability for an 8.

An A in French is ok for nearly everywhere though.

It varies a lot by subject. Roughly speaking, for sciences the top universities will want some A, but even the top Universities won't generally ask for A in humanities eg Oxford doesn't.

Yes for sure, I was trying to make the point that even a native speaker may struggle with the volume and detail of the content - and "only" get an A (obvs an A is a great grade).

So a non-native speaker who only just got a 7 (not saying this is the OP's DS btw) may struggle to achieve an A. A more realistic predicted grade for that student overall (and of course there may be things that change this) is a B.

Actually, not really. I am an Oxford admissions tutor and provided they are predicted to get the required AAA we don't take much notice of A* predictions and they are not included in our pre-interview ranking formula (for my subject at least). Largely because predictions are so unreliable as to be close to useless.

The stats bear that out I think. For MFL.

@clary Of course a B in MFL gets you into a perfectly decent university. I have my views on native speakers! Don’t get me started.

DD is doing French A Level and thinking of going on to study it at uni. She did an exchange visit last summer which made a huge difference- much cheaper than a school! Happy to share details if yiu want

Certain universities or courses may have specific entry requirements, and some institutions tailor their advice to help students meet those requirements. For highly competitive courses, achieving top grades may be emphasized.

@AttillaThePlum thank you I would be interested in exchange opportunities. I did loads as a child but they seem harder to find now or are commercial. Will PM you

@CaptainCachitoo For MFL at most unis you just get the entry grades. That’s it. Few are hugely competitive.

I think mumsnet seem to be biased towards high grades for some reason. Most colleges/6th forms around here only ask for a 5 to study a subject at A-level some ask for a 6or7 in harder subjects.

Saying a child who gets a 7 in GCSE will only get an B is also poor judgment. I have a child in year 12 who, only got a 7 in maths but is actually getting A/A* marks in all her tests so far at A level. Teaching and how much work a student puts in also makes a big difference. If they enjoy the subject then they will be willing to put the work in.

Teaching and how much work a student puts in also makes a big difference.

Yes absolutley this @MigGirl - I totally agree. Also it often happens in sixth form that a student is able to focus more on the three subjects they really enjoy - and not on the Eng lit (maths, history, biology, French) that they disliked but had to take for GCSE, with the result that they do much better.

Well done to your DD for doing so well. But GCSE grades really are the main predictor a school will have at 16 - especially if a student and their ability/work ethic is not known to the staff - so I don't agree that it is poor judgment to predict from them.

I did say and others have too that things can change and there will be variation within any stat. Yes for sure there are probably students who score 7 at GCSE maths or even 6 and go on to gain an A-star at A level. Massive kudos to them.

But still it is true that broadly speaking there is a correlation between GCSE grades and possible A level grades. That's why most schools insist on a minimum grade to study an A level. It varies for sure from school to school, and within subjects. I would want a 7 at GCSE for my subject (MFL) for A level, or at the very least a surprising 6 (as in, I expected them to do a lot better); but another, less linear subject , might be happy with a lower grade and evidence of interest. The other day I saw a post on MN saying "no point doing maths A level with anything lower than a 9" which I thought was ridiculous. DS2 got 8 at GCSE and B at A level. That was certainly worth doing.

I think mumsnet seem to be biased towards high grades for some reason.

In fairness, the question was about choosing to take an A level with the possibility of getting a B if you had a 7 at GCSE.

There's nothing wrong with a B for the record. But the stats show a clear correlation between GCSE and A level grades in some subjects. Having taken a level maths, I can see why as it was far harder than I imagined. You also have to think of the toll on your other a levels if you have to put a lot more work in on one subject.

The high grade bias is more from experience of recent university applications and it's very competitive to get into the most popular unis. My son's offers were all As, others had one or two A stars. Some of his friends were very upset when their B meant they couldn't get into their chosen uni.

I would agree that it's important to choose A levels you enjoy though. So if there aren't three excluding French, I'd go for that but accept that you might have to go for unis with lower offer grades if you do end up in line for a B.

@sparrow4 If you studied French though you would still have a decent choice. If you wanted Economics then not so much!

Regarding GCSE grades, there’s a reason why unis such as Oxford and Bristol look at them as well as predicted grades. Its exam grades actually achieved.

So much depends on the university and course. If you are aiming for a good university, not RG but still 'respectable', say for example Surrey, you may need BBB for a course that would require AAB at Durham. BUT BUT BUT! There may be many people applying to that Durham course with all A stars or all As, likely much fewer with such high grades to Surrey. So having or predicted AAB is no guarantee you'll get an offer from Durham. And leave Oxbridge out if it - their application process is so rigorous that even having all A stars achieved is no assurance of a place. By the time they make an offer the applicant has likely submitted work, taken an exam and had several interviews.
But look at your child. Be realistic. They may work extremely hard to get that B, and that's a great achievement for them. And there are plenty of very good universities available to them. It is too bad sixth forms put off some kids - my DD's didn't want her to do History, despite an 8 at GCSE, because she didn't perform well in their entrance exam. She insisted and earned an A star. But a 6 in Maths (or whatever) may mean they will find it tough to do it at A level and perhaps is not playing to their strengths.