What are you doing to support your lacking-in-direction, lackadaisical 15/16 year old for post GSCE choices?

[OwlBeGone]

Getting quite worried! Ds is 15, not hugely academic, predicted mostly 5s at GSCE. He doesn't want to go to uni & "doesn't want another 2 years in a classroom". He's even talking about the Armed Forces (which for him, I believe, is just a 'last resort' thing because he's struggling to know what to do with himself). He's not particularly practical so I don't think a trade would work either. As awful as this sounds, his dad and I are a bit at a loss because we both went to uni and his sister is there now. He's not really talking to us about what he even THINKS he wants to do, and it feels like he's disengaged. We are going to take him to various open days and will look at A levels he might want to do, as well as T levels and Btechs. It's just all quite confusing! Especially when you've got a son who seems a bit adrift himself. Any advice?

[clary]

Hi OP – if he is predicted mostly 5s the A levels are probably not for him – especially if he wants to be out of the classroom.
There are lots of options that are not a practical trade – hospitality (not only making food), business admin, healthcare to name a few. What are his skills? Is he good with people – front-of-house might be a good role and can lead to great things.
Look here at roles with Compass for example
www.compass-group.co.uk/jobs/early-careers/
 
Apprenticeships are not easy to get but worthwhile. Places like doctor’s surgeries run them for reception/admin roles for example. Or yes, a BTEC in an appropriate skill may suit.

[OwlBeGone]

Thanks Clary, he's not particularly great with people either unfortunately 😅 we'll have a look at apprenticeships but he's aware that apprenticeships at 16 pay a lot less than 18 with some further qualifications so I'm hoping that will encourage him to look at level 3 BTechs at least.

[pissyrascal]

My ds is exactly the same, just into year 10 so not got predicted grades yet but I think it will be 5s and maybe the odd 6 at best. Any conversation about future possibilities leads to him getting stressed and angry. I think a combo of btech and some of the less academic A levels is probably going to be the best option but probably not for uni entry. Just to gain a couple more years of maturity and thinking time and it also shouldn't then close off too many options.

[SirChenjins]

Watching with interest. We’re in Scotland so a different education system but our youngest cherub has an average to poor set of Nat 5s and is now repeating one and doing 4 Highers in S5. No interest whatsoever in school and struggles a bit academically - loves sport though. We’re looking at the apprenticeship or armed forces route, but in what I don’t know. Doesn’t help that DH, the elder DCs and I all went down the university route - I do feel for him.

[clary]

There aren’t really any “less academic A levels” tho @pissyrascal. Even more practical ones like DT or music are quite demanding, and there is a lot of written work on business or economics.

Colleges offer lots of interesting options tho - how about a BTEC in business admin - could lead to decent employment.

[pissyrascal]

yes @clary I know all Alevels are challenging but for example my ds loves sport and enjoys GCSE PE so may end up doing that, but I think he'd struggle at biology. He is also quite enjoying media studies GCSE and could maybe manage A level media studies, but would struggle with English lit, for example

[clary]

Woah PE A level is not less academic though. Neither is media. If you mean "A levels that my DS would enjoy and do better at" then that's great, and more than valid.

But your comparison of PE (less academic) and biology (more academic) or media and Eng lit won't fly. And there is a media teacher on this board who would agree with me.

If he would enjoy and succeed at PE and media then that's great and best of luck to him.

[clary]

hahaha I repeated myself somewhat in that post eh! It's all great @pissyrascal

My DD btw did well at Eng lit but would have been a total failure at PE A level. Just about where her strengths and interests lay, not that she is more academic than your ds (nor indeed her brother)

[Hellocatshome]

Has he looked at apprenticeships, they are not all in trades.

[FawltyTower]

I have no bloody idea.

Ds is in Y11 and is intelligent...and was originally predicted A*'s across the board for GCSE (we're in Wales, still the old number system here).

His 3 science GCSEs in Y10 (45% of final grade) he got 3 A's. Which is great...but lower than he was capable of. And his practice papers he's doing in all subjects at the moment he's coming out with just scraping A grades too. A grade lower than his teachers keep telling us he should be getting.

Sounds crazy to be 'concerned' about him getting A's I know 🙄 And before anyone thinks I'm the high maintenance mother from hell, all he gets from us is huge well done type messages. But it's symptomatic of his personality because he's always, always tended towards laziness, from being a toddler. This far he's smashed school because it's come easily and naturally to him but he does bare bones of homework or revision. It's like pulling teeth trying to get him to do ANY exam prep at all, he'll just delay it, pretend to do it, not do it, thinks whatever will be will be and is totally unconcerned.

The jump from GCSE to A Level is so massive I just cannot see for one minute him putting in anywhere near the required effort. He's not driven enough. But he's not interested in anything else either, he's meh about A Levels, apprenticeships, meh about everything after Y11. He's so laid back he's almost horizontal and doesn't have plans or dreams or particular passions about anything. Content and funny and lovely but you'd swear he was constantly stoned (he's not 😂😂).

So I've absolutely no idea, I'm just hoping he really surprises us and gets a bit of oomph about something soon (anything!).

[NoNeedToHurry]

My son is year 11 and doesn't want to do anything after GCSEs. He definitely doesn't want to do a levels, I've found a couple of BTech courses nearby but he said they "don't really interest" him..he's muttered about apprenticeship but I can't see him actually applying!

What do you do with a non-academic 16 year old who genuinely can't find anything of interest to study within his abilities? He enjoys maths and science lessons but isn't predicted high enough grades to do them for A-level (and I don't think he would cope with A level, it's not about lack of effort!)

I've no idea what he will do!

[JustWhatWeDontNeed]

We have two of these so you have my sympathy - so similar in fact you could've stolen one of them.

One thinks he'll join the army and doesn't even want to do a trade - just rough it in the field and hope to rank up...

The other one tends to want to do whichever apprenticeship we suggest. No direction. No ambition.

They both have plenty to say about what they don't want to do, but have put zero effort into investigating what they do want to do.

I time wasted doing A levels so I won't be encouraging that, and it's pointless without
decent academics.

I think I was similarly lost tbh, but the college course I wanted to do was very expensive and my grades slumped too much for uni - I was part time working and having too much of a social life.

I think try and steer towards apprenticeships if you can, or military with a thought process behind it.

[JustWhatWeDontNeed]

We have seriously contemplated moving to Scotland and just shoving them out to work. I want to go there anyway, so it might be the perfect excuse.

[DomingoinLittleOakley]

Gah! This is my 15 year-old DS Y11, but he has pretty poor predicted GCSE grades (we're talking anything from 2-5 based on his last mocks, with a bizarre 7 for English as an outlier), no interest in school whatsoever, no motivation to revise for the next mocks in October, absolute refusal to have any sort of tutor, and 6 months or so until actual GCSEs.

Absolutely no idea what he wants to do other than "not school", but every possible path suggested to him is shot down.

I know this sounds like every Mum talking about their little soldier, but he's actually pretty bright, well-spoken, erudite, personable, all that jazz. Just can't be arsed to do the academic work.

I get it, it's not for him, but unfortunately it's not how the world works, and we're at a bit of an impasse. I have no idea what to do next.

[ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea]

My DS did a modern apprenticeship . Started A levels but dropped out after first year . His apprenticeship was in business admin, but within the company he also got experience in their sales department and warehouse . It was absolutely the right thing for him because whereas he coasted along at school and barely attended college, he became really motivated by being in adult company and in the workplace - really discovered his work ethic .

During the year of the apprenticeship scheme there is one day per week either on the job training or a day at college and an NVQ at the end . DS company kept him on and he's been there 5 years now .

[OwlBeGone]

Oh god solidarity to you all ✊️
Are some kids just really too young to be making these decisions basically!?
It's causing DH and I to butt heads too because I think A levels will be just really too hard for him and DH is all 'you're being too negative' but ds just has no subjects he's that passionate about to even make up for the laziness and lack of interest in studying!

[ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea]

A couple of his friends have done two year BTEC courses at college but they are employed in completely different areas - one works at the company where he had a Saturday job and another has worked as a receptionist and now in NHS call centre .

I would suggest that if your DS does continue in education rather than an apprenticeship, that you really encourage him to do some part time work alongside.

[clary]

I know this sounds like every Mum talking about their little soldier, but he's actually pretty bright, well-spoken, erudite, personable, all that jazz.

Those are such great skills tho @DomingoinLittleOakley - there will be a role for him for sure. Even if you start with what they don't want to do, that is a starting point.

There's a lot of chat on these boards about "My dd at Warwick" (I am as guilty as any) but I ran into an old pal the other day and we chatted; her older son is working as a freelance joiner and earning £££ (their words) and her other lad has got a job in engineering and is also set on a good career.

They are the same ages as my DD (graduated last year and working in a low-level library role with £50k of uni debt (she loves her job but she will never be on £££)) and DS2 (two more years with me financing him at uni - to leave with a debt of £70k).

I was left thinking hmmmmm a bit. I am a massive advocate of higher education but it certainly isn't right for everyone - and there is a lot to be said for getting out there and working,.

[DomingoinLittleOakley]

My DS school I think has knocked the stuffing out of him to be honest. It's a 'shirt untucked twice, that's a detention' kind of place, and he doesn't see it as a somewhere that supports the non-academic. I agree with him to be honest, but there isn't another option.

He places a lot of importance on his extra curricular sport (football, martial arts and gym) and that comes first for him, but he says he doesn't want to do that for a job, so...

[NoNeedToHurry]

@OwlBeGone

Oh god solidarity to you all ✊️
Are some kids just really too young to be making these decisions basically!?
It's causing DH and I to butt heads too because I think A levels will be just really too hard for him and DH is all 'you're being too negative' but ds just has no subjects he's that passionate about to even make up for the laziness and lack of interest in studying!

They need to really be interested in the subject to put in the amount of work A-levels will take, don't they? That's the same for my DS, he couldn't name three he would want to do! He likes maths but I don't think he'd cope with A-level (he is doing further maths at GCSE level and is struggling, which we aren't fussed about but it does show that A-level isn't for him!)
His school doesn't have a 6th form which doesn't help as it means actively applying to other places, lots of open days etc and DS is just not motivated. He likes music technology but there isn't anywhere near us that offers it at any level other than A Level, and he wouldn't have any other subjects to do alongside it.

I feel like he needs his gap year now! Get a job, try out some different things, figure out what he is interested in and then find courses and qualifications which facilitate that. I really worry that his years from 16-18 will be wasted, just being in education cos the law says he has to but having nothing to show at the end of it!

[JustWhatWeDontNeed]

@OwlBeGone

Oh god solidarity to you all ✊️
Are some kids just really too young to be making these decisions basically!?
It's causing DH and I to butt heads too because I think A levels will be just really too hard for him and DH is all 'you're being too negative' but ds just has no subjects he's that passionate about to even make up for the laziness and lack of interest in studying!

I think it's motivation rather than age related. Plenty of my peers had direction - and a lot of those with direction continued on those paths.

Our slightly more capable one was muttering about doing maths A level the other day. His most recent practice paper was graded U... He's not worried - everyone did badly - we hadn't done the stuff on the paper... what he means is he didn't look at the huge volume of revision material he was supposed to be referencing over summer. He was moved into top set last year so we'll have to see how that goes. He's better off getting a 3 than a U, so he might need to move back down if he doesn't improve. I think you have to get a 6 to be considered for Maths A level anyway. They're doing pretty much monthly tests in English and Maths this year, so at least we can vaguely keep an eye.

We're gonna go to the Army recruitment center in half term, but again, I don't think he'll have any actual questions to ask. He was surprised when I told him that they'll expect him to have some current affairs knowledge if he goes to the assessment center. You know, knowledge of what the British army is actually doing... where they have bases... humanitarian activities they might be involved in... when he's this nonchalant about it, I'm inclined to just leave him to it.

The other one is going to be lucky to get any/many 4s so really needs to concentrate on apprenticeships. Went to a nice college open day the other day. They said to sort CV, apply to the college now so you're on the apprenticeship list, apply for other apprenticeships you see online even if it won't go anywhere... no action has been taken. He claims he "doesn't want" to work in a shop, or an office, or be a mechanic, but puts no effort into the one or two things he maybe thinks he might enjoy.

They both know they won't be sitting on their arses, so if they haven't sorted something come September, they'll be applying for all and any jobs that are available. The Local Authority or whoever are welcome to hunt us down for breaking the rules - apparently they don't really enforce the education til 18 thing though, so I'm not worried.

[JustWhatWeDontNeed]

Sorry that was really long.

[BethDuttonsTwin]

This was my dd. She got all 5's & 1 6 and is now doing BTechs. Tbh it's been the making of her. She loves the subjects she's doing - no more maths, PE or science! And loves the flexibility of sixth form - finishes at lunchtime two days a week, study periods in her timetable which means very little "homework" as it all gets done at college. Sixth form is very different, we didn't realise just how different, maybe help him understand that?

[SirChenjins]

@OwlBeGone

Oh god solidarity to you all ✊️
Are some kids just really too young to be making these decisions basically!?
It's causing DH and I to butt heads too because I think A levels will be just really too hard for him and DH is all 'you're being too negative' but ds just has no subjects he's that passionate about to even make up for the laziness and lack of interest in studying!

I absolutely think some children are too young - I don’t know if it’s because DS2 is our youngest with quite an age gap between him and his siblings but he’s definitely less mature than they were at his age. Losing 2 years during covid hasn’t helped either - I feel that maturity wise he’s closer to 14 than his actual 16.

[JustWhatWeDontNeed]

@SirChenjins

I absolutely think some children are too young - I don’t know if it’s because DS2 is our youngest with quite an age gap between him and his siblings but he’s definitely less mature than they were at his age. Losing 2 years during covid hasn’t helped either - I feel that maturity wise he’s closer to 14 than his actual 16.

Edited

Ours also seem to be a bit blank in the maturity department. There's definitely no critical thinking. No foresight. No motivation beyond "I want money but I don't want to do that for it". Definitely no enthusiasm from kids, who not that long ago, "can't wait to be grown ups".

I expected to be guiding, not making decisions and doing life research on behalf of almost 16 year olds. I was definitely not being steered like this at that age. I made my own choices and lived with the consequences of them. I don't think they realise how close June is...

I think social media and streaming has also made it much more difficult to accidentally acquire what I consider to be basic general knowledge. Despite living in the real world they don't seem to be particulalry aware of what happens in it