DS is not sure if he wants to go to uni in September

[Laburnam]

He is really questioning whether it’s something he really wants to do, he isn’t feeling excited by the prospect of going. He isn’t keen to take a year out . Any suggestions are met with no and he just seems stuck, he is dreading results day as it will mean decisions will have to be made

I agree. I defo think the op needs to back off a bit. He’s clearly motivated and driven, he doesn’t need her breathing down the back of his neck and ‘getting frustrated’ that he won’t take a gap year. While I guess a gap year can be good for a lot of people, I’ve only known them to end in disaster, with people not ending up doing anything at all after the year and ending up in a dead end job. Leave him alone, let him get his results and decide what he wants to do from there

I really feel for you OP. Genuinely think our teens have suffered, partly through COVID and are struggling with the need to ‘be successful’. My daughter is the same age, and although she knows what she wants to do, she is terrified of life changing and moving on. In some ways she’s very mature, but in others, she’s happy in her life now.
Do you talk to your DS about what he wants his life to look like? What kind of environment he would like to live in, what activities he would like to do when he isn’t at work, how far he’s happy to be from family, whether he wants a partner, children, pets in future. What kind of home he wants to live in? Sometimes those conversations can help put a framework around a life for him and can lead to more understanding of what kind of work he can do and where.

Are you sure he isn't anxious about leaving his home , family friends? This is difficult for lots of young people and all the performative excitement can get really overwhelming. He might just be a bit scared.

Also, have any of his mates, or family, been negative or made fun of his choices? We discovered this about DS1 when we unpicked some anxieties.

I would recommend he defers by a year, gives him breathing space, but only on the condition he works

Don't frame it as a "year out" then. Ask him what he plans to do if he doesn't go to university. Make it clear that you will not support him to sit around and do nothing but are quite happy for him to decide he wants to get a job (paid or voluntary), apprenticeship, do further non-university study or do something like travel (or whatever options you would be happy with!)

With the pressure off he may actually decided in a year or so that he does want to go after all, and can reapply then. Or he may choose an entirely different path, and that will be ok too.

Do nothing. They all feel like this in the run up to results. He needs you to be calm at the moment, and just say placating 'Oh OK that's fine' or 'Yes I'm sure we can sort something out'.

It's eleven days away. Grit teeth and smile benignly.

So normal for him to feel this way. It's a scary time as he thinks he's making lifelong decisions (whereas in reality it probably won't matter if he starts something now and then changes his mind later on). Also the current batch of uni students have had a disrupted time with covid and strikes - he may have heard negative things about uni from current students or in the news?

Financially it really can matter. You will be paying for something you will not get and reducing the length of loans for another course. Not all parents can afford the try it out scenario. It’s better not to start then give up. Life will be closer after results day but if he doesn’t want to go then, start talking again. He won’t necessarily be able to sort himself out and I’m not sure he’s bothered about his subject choice either. Reality is setting in.

He doesn't need to go to uni at all, he could get a job, do a course somewhere else, he might then get a degree later in life, or he might not. A degree is not the be all and end all.
Let him get his results, explore all his different options, and make the decision that works for him.
I don't have a degree and have managed to have two successful careers in both of which I've been highly regarded.
I'm not saying you are, but be careful of trying to live out your ambitions through him.

@zurala It depends if the career is now via a degree gateway. Many jobs are. Apprenticeships are not. However looking around is a good idea if DC isn’t sure. I did well without a degree but you could easily do so when I was younger. It’s changed now.

This OP. If he doesn't go to uni then he'll be doing something else. That's all it is. No need for a 'year out'.

University in 2023 is a massive financial commitment and you only get one shot at student loan funding for a first degree (well unless you career change into specific professions). Better to wait and go with purpose, than to spaff it up the wall.

Our working lives are also much longer these days... 40+ years. There's no need to rush.

I really don’t want him to go to uni if he feels it’s something he should do instead of wants to do, he tends to see everything in black and white. He thinks it will not do him any favours by taking a year out, I think he is making a big mistake by going to uni in September, of course I haven’t shared this with him, let’s hope everything becomes clearer

@Laburnam As I said earlier, getting some relevant experience would be a great thing to do in a year. It would support another application or even lead to an apprenticeship. He might decide it’s not for him but at least from a better informed viewpoint. Social work degrees are often in clearing so not very competitive so I wouldn’t worry too much about academics.

As others have said, stop phrasing it as a year out.

Ask him, if he doesn't go to uni in September, what he plans to do instead. Don't even mention uni courses for the future. Would he continue with his current job? Look for a different one? Look for an apprenticeship etc?

If he is enthused about any of those ideas, I'd support him to do that- and then in the future if he decides he wants to go to uni, he can reapply at any time. It may be that goes in a year's time, or two years time, or later on as a mature student- that option will always be available to him, if he chooses to do so.

If he's still angry at the idea of discussing alternatives to uni, then I'd say he does want to go, but this is his way of expressing anxiety about leaving home etc- so talk to him about these anxieties and reassure him they are normal!

Our son took not one year but three to decide what he wanted to do at university.

After a grumpy demoralised month or two at home while I despairingly thought he would never get into gear, he worked full time for those three years, saved to travel, decided on a degree he would never previously have considered, and has just graduated (at the top of his year, at that). He didn't feel out of place with a later start, as it's pretty common.

Maturity can really help.

My son got all his grades so could have gone to his 1st choice. Over the summer he decided the debt and years without money were not for him so he found himself an apprenticeship, he has never looked back was earning £20k when he finished and soon progressed to £50k he now has brought his own car has 3 children and is happy.

If he's happy working at the garden centre can he carry on with this? He may feel he's found something he likes and perhaps in time do a horticulture qualification? There's no hurry with these things.

@jannier And presumably doesn’t live in London?

I don’t understand why posters are referring to debt. It’s a grad tax. Many never pay it back. It’s not a bank loan.

'Grad tax', 'debt', however you reframe it it's still money going out of your pocket. The bigger issue however is the required financial contribution, burden on parents.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to university at all. But going away for 3 years at the age of 18 might not be the best decision financially if you can get there via other means.

What's wrong with waiting a year - applying for apprenticeships etc, exploring other options? While they are 'competitive' you won't get one if you never apply, and there are also degree apprenticeships.

Top-up degrees post professional qualifications, OU, distance learning, there are loads of options.

Having been in the world of work for the best part of a decade, and in a company that hires lots of apprentices (degree and non-degree) a 'proper 3 year degree' actually offers little advantage. In fact, dare I say that some of our apprentices have more critical thinking skills and common sense .... :)

I'm also not sure why you refer to London ....

There are now social work degree apprenticeships

A salary of £50,000 sadly doesn’t go far in London.

A degree in some subjects and from some unis is very worth it. You don’t always pay much back either because it’s salary dependent. Only around 3500 under 19s get degree apprenticeships . The vast majority doing them are older. So in many companies degree apprenticeships are very very competitive for young people and the DC getting them are hardly back numbers snd are equal to very many grads in A levels. However getting the degree might take longer and often it won’t be from Durham or Bath. So it’s a different product and route into work. With the numbers being so tiny in apprenticeships any company thinking grads are not any good is deluded though. Maybe the better ones don’t apply?

Degree apprentice social worker looks possible but my LA doesn’t list them at the moment. The glib comments suggesting apprenticeships are a true alternating for the majority are wide of the mark. Hardly any available.

To add: My local uni lists social work degrees via an apprenticeship. Then it says you need a qualifying job first! It’s poor info if you want this route. So whether they are available to 18 year olds is open to question.

Yes, but many people with degrees will never earn that much. Or earn it young enough for it be of any use. So how is that relevant?

A degree is an academic pursuit - it's not a substitute for actual work experience. You mention 'grads' not being good enough... well, what exactly have they done to make them better employees than someone just out of school? That's the point I'm trying to make. At our company (large MNC) both apprentices and graduates have the same recruitment process online tests, video interviews, competency questions. Of course, we know that an apprentice will have less to talk about (instant fail for any graduate who has no examples beyond uni group projects), but the bar isn't lower in terms of potential.

Also university name is not at relevant as it used to be- most large graduate employers don't place large emphasis on it anyway (except for specifics like investment bankers and Magic circle law firms).

I don't believe in telling anybody what they 'should' or 'should not' do by the way. You seem biased towards a degree at all costs. Of course, if someone's got an offer for Oxbridge, LSE or Imperial. Or doesn't know what they want to do, by all means go to university.

But if you're sure - AND your career choice has a degree apprenticeship - that's a better choice. I agree that apprenticeships aren't an option for the 'majority' because they're a) for certain fields only and b) location. But they're not just for those with no options.

What one should avoid at all costs however is rushing into uni just because everyone else is doing so. No harm in taking time to think. This cohort will probably be working until they drop dead anyway with our current demographics.

How bizarre. You think someone with a MEng is the same as a school leaver? What have they done at uni you ask? Maybe you need to look at, and understand, what is required for a degree at a decent uni. Plus an understanding of transferable skills is always a bonus in recruiting people or no one with a non vocational degree would ever get a job.

The blunt truth is very very few 18 year olds get degree apprenticeships. It’s a tiny fraction of those starting uni. They are currently a drop in the ocean. I do not believe in saying they are an option for the majority. They simply are not. I would agree they should be far more widely available and the current stats are a scandal. So any careers advice needs to be honest. Degrees are the way the majority now get work. And yes, employers look at uni because they actually trust highly regarded courses. If they didn’t, why would unis exist? Academic isn’t a ring fence. The skills learnt are transferable to work. Most employers understand they need a blend of people to be successful.

Sounds like he’s picked the wrong subject to study. If it was my DC I would support their decision and make it clear that there is the expectation that they will need to find a full time job if they aren’t in full time education.