A Level Choices

[Bluebird23]

Hi

My daughter is currently in Y10 and visting Colleges with the school. They need to apply to college in October and after various taster lessons she's considering the following A Levels:

Maths
Further Maths
Economics
Politics

The Further Maths can be finished in Y12 by sitting the AS Level if she doesn't wish to continue in Y13.

At the moment DD has no idea what career she'd like to pursue

I wondered if anyone had on thoughts or advice to share on this combination? Is it a narrow combination that will close doors or very difficult / content heavy etc.

Many thanks

Did she get a 9 in maths gcse?

No science there so that shuts the doors on anything sciency. Would be a good combo for economics at uni or maybe PPE?

It will close doors on loads of science degrees which is fine if she knows that she doesn’t want to go down that path. A levels for my kids were generally about what they DIDN’T want to do.

The OP said that she is in Y10, so presumably she won't have done it yet?

In answer to your question, OP, the general consensus from dd's friends is that maths/further maths is challenging (but perfectly doable for kids who are good at maths), whereas economics and politics are reportedly piss easy! So I don't think the overall combination would be too challenging.

Ah whoops sorry.

At dds school only the ones who were confidently expected 9s are encouraged to do Maths and Fm. Dds best friend got mostly 9s for everything including maths and is really struggling to get As in Maths A level mocks.

@Bluebird23 Ignore the comments on Economics and Politics being easy. They are not.

However they are best taken to support Maths and Hisory respectively. Cambridge sets out the subjects that keep more doors open. Politics and economics support others subjects and are, of course, useful for politics and economics.

As she has no other science she is looking at non science degrees. Therefore management, business, economics, law, and politics and IR are strong possibilities. No doubt others I’ve forgotten! Anything maths related too. Just check these types of degree are what she wants.

Hi OP that's a good combo if it is what she will enjoy.

Obviously any A level combination is limiting (in university terms) to an extent - she will not be taking a degree in Eng lit or French. Presumably she won't want to.

As others say, those A levels facilitate anything relating to maths, which includes economics, engineering and computer science (maths A level usually needed but not CS A level). And of course the uni degree subjects which need no specific A levels such as psychology (science subject usually preferred but maths ticks that box - psych A level not needed), law, politics, business, marketing.

If you or she are concerned about narrowing choices, she might want to reconsider the politics and economics. While they are great if she will like them, and would support a possible uni choice in that way, econ is not needed for an econ degree (or any degree) ditto politics.

If she swapped one or both of them for a science (physics, biology, chemistry, geography) then that would open more doors in those areas - eg chem would offer medicine, vet sci, chemical engineering; biology would offer biology (obv) and biological science - etc. But I am only suggesting that bc you asked if the choices were narrow. If she would enjoy politics more than chemistry then that's the way to go for sure. HTH.

Thank you for taking the time to respond, it's really helpful.

I think she may be best to rethink taking both Economics & Politics and may be adding a Science or Geography instead She genuinely has no idea what she'd like to do in the future so it's probably wise to leave her options as open as possible.

In the recent GCSE mock exams she scored a low grade 9 in maths, so she's hoping to achieve a 9 next year. She loves maths but understands A Level is a big step up from GCSE and that it's v difficult to achieve an A.

Thanks again

I should add that if she was thinking of medicine, some courses require biology and chemistry - but there are certainly some where bio or chem plus maths would be fine. Worth investigating further if that might be her choice.

@Bluebird23 Is she really good enough for FM? It’s very useful, for obvious reasons, but it isn’t for everyone. I’m also assuming she’s not taking economics or politics at gcse. Therefore she’s only continuing with one existing subject. Maths and Geography opens up a Geography degree and possibly Environmental science where you do not need FM. The other question is, does she actually prefer science to humanities? If she’s unsure, geography is a good compromise. In my view, it’s the politics that’s the odd one as she has not got history. FM might be a stretch too. History, maths and economics are a very good combination if she likes history.

They have to really love maths as doing both maths and fm means 50% of the timetable is maths. I think a read of this excellent post by noble is a realistically sets out the transition from GCSE to A level in terms of grade outcomes. She teaches maths.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4007205-How-maths-GCSE-result-predicts-A-level-maths-result-important-for-grade-6-7

Both my DCs did/do maths/fm A level and DC's advice is keep practising it and if they don't understand something, ask for help from their teacher or online. That goes for all subjects at A level, ask for help the second they don't fully understand something. Don't let anything slide. It doesn't have to be a massive jump.

Ds2 does Economics, loves the diversity of the topics and will go on to study that at university.

DS1 got a 7 at GCSE maths and came out with a B at A level. He sweated blood and tears for it though.
Also did Geography and got an A - now studying it at degree level. Unsure what he wants to do but enjoys it. A subject that keeps doors open.

Yeh ds2 got an 8 at GCSE maths and got a B at A level. Probably needed more work than he was prepared to do to get an A tbh (not his main subject). He had thought about FM but was glad in the end he changed his mind,

I have DC who have taken Maths, FM, Geog and a physical science as their chosen combinations. Whilst this kept doors open and was manageable, that is mainly because they enjoyed those subjects the most and knew they would be well taught in their school sixth form.

So, OP, your DC's potential selection sounds logical and potentially manageable. However, as Econ and Pol are likely to be new subjects, could your DC print off some past papers to check whether 'I can see myself wanting to answer questions like this in my A-level exams'?

With respect to Maths & FM, there is not a neat correlation between strong GCSE performance and A level performance. My DC were not top set at GCSE but performed strongly at A level because they really took to the pure maths/logic more evident at that level. This change in syllabus emphasis can also work the other way for some previously strong students.

Thank you, all your responses are really useful as I'm feeling out of my depth at the moment.

I don't know if she's strong enough for FM A Level. She has been attending maths master classes at the local college as part of a high achievers programme and really enjoys the classes. The college advised if she decided she'd like to do a maths or economics degree in the future she will need FM. I thought she could start FM and if it turns out to be too much this would rule out a maths or economics degree anyway. She could then sit FM AS Level in Y12 and focus on the remaining 3 A Levels in Y13.

I don't think medicine is on her radar but she has shown an interest in bio medical science and pharmaceuticals in the past.

I think Politics has interested her because she loves History. I put her off History A Level as I thought it would be too much work alongside Maths, FM and one other.

Again thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and advice.

Sorry, I've just seen the links provided re GCSE and A Level results.
That's really interesting and quite sobering.

As others say, those A levels facilitate anything relating to maths, which includes economics, engineering and computer science

Engineering you'd want physics alongside the maths.
bio medical science and pharmaceuticals in the past.
Pharmaceuticals - chemistry.

OP, it sounds like your DD is interested in taking FM and currently performing well at GCSE level Maths. That puts her in a good position so encourage her to think about taking it; she can drop it during/at the end of Y12 if necessary. My DDs & DSs found FM supported Maths (and visa versa) as well as supporting their physical science (one did Phys, another Chem) and their Geog because their 12 marker answers became very logical and structured. So four A levels don't necessarily have to feel like four and there are 'aggregate' benefits.

More generally, A level selection is tricky but the three elements to consider are (in my view, in this order): what do I enjoy the most? (because doing well is easier if you like it!); what fits best in terms of workload and variety? (the latter might be actively sought or actively avoided!); what doors are closed by my potential combination and does that really matter to me? (there are always trade-offs at some point).

With respect to History, is it worth clarifying the periods covered? One of my DC considered History (in place of Geog) but were more interested in the recent past/contemporary period so stuck with Geog.

Another of my DC considered Pol and/or Econ precisely because of their (more broadly) contemporary focus and whilst appealing, on exploring the syllabi, felt they wanted to stick to the known quantity of Geog; this did prove to be the right choice for them but it is difficult at the time of A level selection, particularly if you have a DC interested in maths/science as well as humanities.

A final point is that some subjects (depending on board) have an NEA component eg AQA History does but Pol and Econ do not (if I remember rightly), so that is another aspect to consider

Economics is absolutely not piss easy - not quite sure where you got this from. I teach in a top 100 academic school in terms of results and lots of the students do Economics. It’s a solid well regarded A level. OP - that combo seems fine if Maths is a real strength- I wouldn’t bother with Further Maths unless they find GCSE Maths ridiculously easy.

I mean, Maths, History and Economics sounds like a fantastic set of A levels. I wouldn't bother with FM unless she wants to do maths at university.

Actually a decent number of good unis don't require physics for some of their engineering courses - Birmingham and Nottingham for example - though for sure it would help. Not that OP's DC wants to take engineering as far as we know! but it is still an option with a bit of research.

@Bluebird23 Politics is not less work than History. It’s still essays!

Some engineering is considered more mathematical but most engineering is still physics related. Physics develops more of the skills engineers need.

There's two rather separate questions to answer when deciding on A levels.

First, are there any subjects which are required for various degrees that the student may want to keep on the table. Maths is the most obvious of these.

Second, which are the subjects which while not absolutely required, are particularly useful for various degrees. Obviously, A levels aren't just a means to an end, not just bits of paper to access various courses - each builds skills and knowledge. The student may not be able to hit the ground running if they've not done a relevant subject that most of their cohort have.

Agree with that completely @ErrolTheDragon and would say @Bluebird23 that if your dd is seriously interested in engineering then physics would be a good shout. Maths, FM, physics and economics would be a great set if physics is something she likes.