Third A level - Sociology or something else?

[VaccinistaToteBagChicBaristas]

DD Yr 11 has chosen Maths and History and unsure of third choice between -

Sociology - Probable favourite & she was enthusiastic about taster session at school. I know it's fine for all unis including Oxbridge but is there still any snobbery around it amongst graduate recruiters? And, given she's also doing 2 very traditional academic subjects, does it matter?

Politics - she's generally interested in subject but thinks the A level syllabus (seems to be mostly about UK & US govt structure) looks quite boring. If she ends up applying for History & Politics degree, would it look odd or would she be disadvantaged without the A level?

Economics - seems good fit with Maths/ interest in current affairs but don't know a great deal about it.

English Lit - tried and tested, safe bet. She's very good at it but I'd say she likes it rather than loves it.

She's at a selective school - Economics & Sociology most popular A levels of these 4 & v good results in all 4 subjects.

Possible degrees History/ History & Politics/ Social Science type degree but still very unsure. Possible careers - discussed Law/ civil service/ teaching/ maybe even accountancy - but again still very unsure.

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks

I’d say for her to go with what interests her the most. A Levels are hard but they’re made a lot easier if you have a genuine interest in the subject.

From my experience the first year of university covers most of what the A Level would cover anyway, so if she didn’t take politics then I don’t think she’d be at a disadvantage

In regards to the snobbery around Sociology, I don’t think there is, especially as she has more traditional other subjects like you said. If you are concerned though, has she considered psychology as an alternative

Your DD might like to download and read 'Subject Matters', produced by U of Cambridge. This indicates that, for students potentially interested in Arts or Humanities subjects at Cambridge but not sure yet which one, a combination of Maths and History and a range of other, specifically mentioned subjects including Sociology would be regarded as a good base. So no snobbery or reservation there with regards to Sociology. LSE also includes Sociology on its list of approved subjects.

I had a DC interested in a range of subjects not taught at GCSE level at their school (eg Politics, Economics, Business). I encouraged said DC to download a couple of past A-level papers to see whether they liked the look and style of the questions. It was actually very helpful. For example, they realised Politics had a big constitutional element and Economics had a quite dry (in their view) focus on theoretical models. They actually stuck with Geography in the end (liked it and did well). Your DD could use the same process if unsure and that might confirm that Sociology really sparked their interest vs, say, English Literature.

I would suggest she goes with what she will most enjoy.

Economics is very popular at degree level, but the key is her maths ability. It is a hard A Level, ds did well, but it wasn't taught well at school and I did have to fork out for an online course.

Politics sits very neatly with history, and there is often a cross over between the two. Ds found the content quite basic, so probably worth looking at the syllabus before she chooses.

With history and maths, I think it doesn't really matter what you pick for the third.

Could she start two of them (alongside Maths and History) with a view to dropping one

That would give her the opportunity to try out the new subjects and see what she thinks and is a fairly common approach to A levels here. Wouldn't completely solve it for her though...

I think with the two 'traditional' subjects she could choose any of those 4

Personally if those I would say Economics

Thanks for all the helpful replies. Appreciate everyone's thoughts.
@ALS94 Already considered and ruled out Psych, along with a couple of others. Am wondering if she'd be at a disadvantage actually getting on to a Politics degree in first place without the A level?
@PerpetualOptimist Great minds think alike - I think I've already seen that Cambridge doc but am less concerned about Sociology for uni applications than for job applications afterwards. I've also already suggested she looks at A level papers as next step, thanks!
@3sthemagicnumber Re starting with 4, I think she may still struggle to decide which to drop & end up doing 4 which seems an unnecessary amount of work & stress. Apparently there's also an issue that depending on when they drop the 4th, it may be too late to then sign up for an EPQ.

Timetabling may be an issue with starting 4 and dropping 1.

I'd suggest Economics.

@VaccinistaToteBagChicBaristas, glad to see you are one step ahead of me!

In respect of potential prejudices against Sociology A-level amongst recruiters, I suspect that, if these exist, they lurk in a sector like law.

I remembered the thread I have linked below attracted a number of lawyers involved in the later stages of recruitment as well as those (more likely HR) involved earlier and throughout. The discussion was more about perceptions of A-level Law but Sociology and other subjects are mentioned.

My view is that your DD should think about what is drawing her to Sociology ahead of other choices. It could be she is the sort of person that enjoys and needs new challenges and change or it could be the topics within the subject are really appealing. Ultimately it might mean she is more likely to get an A in Sociology than in, say, Eng Lit or Econ and that, far more than possible prejudices in one pocket of one profession, would be the crucial factor.

Link: www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4492302-Any-lawyers-on-here-that-could-give-some-advice-to-my-dd-age-15

No one cares what subjects your A levels were in, unless we are , according to MN, speaking of magic circle law. It might matter in teaching for some subjects...

My DS did economics, history and sociology A levels and got a Cambridge interview. They literally teach sociology at Cambridge!

It really really won't matter.

On a practical note, potential students need to be wary of the huuuuuuuuge amount of content in sociology . DS has an excellent memory , luckily but there is masses of rote learning. It's not as 'sexy' as taster sessions could make it sound.

PS , your DD is correct in her suspicions about politics A level. Quite dry.

Also worth emphasising that he did economics A level without maths . He loved it but had a fabulous teacher. He couldn't apply for most straight economics degrees without maths A level but found the A level really complemented history and sociology.

One of mine found Economics A level really enjoyable and relevant to their Geography and History A levels (regretted not doing A levels Maths though as it was specified more than Economics A level for Economics based degrees).
The other has done History, Maths and Geography.

I do think Maths is a harder A level (eases them in Year 12 then really steps up for Year 13 - for A level they do need to be a high 8 or 9 at GCSE and great at Algebra). Maths needs continued effort and time devoted to it.

History A level is a lot of content and essays so can catch them out if they don't really start doing and planning past paper essays in Year 12 as there's not enough time in Year 13.

Geography was the winner for both of them.

I'd work from why History and Maths A levels?
What does she enjoy most about them?

Both are analytical and great A levels and Economics would be the easier choice I would say. Get her to listen to a few podcasts or watch some Youtube content to see if this sparks her interest in the content.

Sociology and Politics could be History level of 'lots to revise' and for History /Politics at degree level Economics would be facilitating anyway.

I teach Economics. She should look at The Economics Book (Dorling Kindersley, often in libraries, Waterstones have the whole 'Big Ideas' set) and see if the subject matter grabs her.

If not...avoid!

You only need sub GCSE competence in Maths for Econ A-level unless you plan to go further. It's mostly an essay subject.

Assuming she’s interested in all the subjects I would go for Sociology. It’s easier to get the top marks and the better grades, again assuming she has a genuine interest in the subject.
my friend who didn’t like the subject but picked it as it was ‘easier’ didn’t do very well but I got my highest grade in sociology.
I wanted to read Law at uni (I 100% knew what I wanted to do) and as such picked the ‘easier’ subjects like English Lit, Psychology, Sociology and History ( I didn’t drop any). Friends who picked politics, economics or maths etc, struggled to get the best grades.

goodluck!!

I'd agree totally. DS did really well at A level, chose a degree with economics in it and ran for the hills after 3 weeks of the extra maths lessons. He prefers talking about the ethics of economics than doing it!

Economics for a "non facilitating" subject, goes well with maths and is well regarded. Some of my children did it and enjoyed it.

English lit with the history already chosen have often been a good compbination for subjects like law (I did English lit, histroy and German and read law at university).

I had a student message me from university. She'd done well at A-level (excellent essay skills) but never grasped the mathematical/graph aspect of Economics. She took Econ as a minor in her first year.

"OMG Mrs X. The equations. On the board. I ran away!"

😆

I would suggest checking if she does genuinely enjoy reading. If she doesn't and will limit herself to just doing her set texts then she is unlikely to excel at English. Basic control of written English is a real limiter so students who managed good results at GCSE don't always do well at A level if they can't write eloquently and read widely. I would personally also want to know how qualified the sociology teachers are. Do they actually have sociology or related degrees and what are the historical results like at the school. They don't teach it lower down the school so sometimes you get a Specialist teacher who just teaches sixth formers ... and sometimes you get a PE teacher who did a unit of sociology in their degree and has got 'roped in'. Schools need to run it because it is popular with students but it's not always easy to staff. I agree that with other comments to do what you enjoy but many students pick up sociology without really understanding details of the content.

Actually, that is a very good point. Schools around here are struggling to find sociology teachers, and in ds's year, the class pretty much had no teacher for the last two terms of A Level.

Lots of teachers in almost every subject don't have a degree in that subject to be fair.

I teach three A Level subjects - got a degree in one of them - my students do well. Our head of maths has a law degree, our head of MFL has an English degree, our politics teacher is a history graduate. We have a head of Latin who is an English graduate. And so on.

The thing about sociology is there aren't many specific teacher training routes into it, especially in less urban areas - and so lots of teachers of a range of other subjects (commonly psychology, politics, health and social,English diversify into it).

Teachers are lifelong learners -so long as they do the learning and the boards offer decent training (and the teacher is keen , dedicated and intelligent ...) it's not as big an issue as you might assume.

Sociology in its popularity as a subject (4th most popular non core GCSE, for example) has possibly outstripped the supply of sociology teachers...especially in schools. Most sociologists who want to teach target FE and sixth form colleges.

Our Sociology is taught by RS and Geography specialists. All experienced, get good results. Do not be automatically put off. There is a lot of cross-over with RS and the Global Development option is essentially Geography.

Oh yes, I forgot RS and geography teachers. Also true, although at my school our geographers are obsessively Physical!

More than 20 years ago now I did politics A level followed by a politics degree. We duplicated the A level in the first year of the degree.

She should do what she will enjoy. Although I regret not doing politics and economics at uni as it would have been a more rounded useful degree.