Third A level - Sociology or something else?

[VaccinistaToteBagChicBaristas]

DD Yr 11 has chosen Maths and History and unsure of third choice between -

Sociology - Probable favourite & she was enthusiastic about taster session at school. I know it's fine for all unis including Oxbridge but is there still any snobbery around it amongst graduate recruiters? And, given she's also doing 2 very traditional academic subjects, does it matter?

Politics - she's generally interested in subject but thinks the A level syllabus (seems to be mostly about UK & US govt structure) looks quite boring. If she ends up applying for History & Politics degree, would it look odd or would she be disadvantaged without the A level?

Economics - seems good fit with Maths/ interest in current affairs but don't know a great deal about it.

English Lit - tried and tested, safe bet. She's very good at it but I'd say she likes it rather than loves it.

She's at a selective school - Economics & Sociology most popular A levels of these 4 & v good results in all 4 subjects.

Possible degrees History/ History & Politics/ Social Science type degree but still very unsure. Possible careers - discussed Law/ civil service/ teaching/ maybe even accountancy - but again still very unsure.

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks

Ugh it did that annoying A* thing

I think she should take whatever would interest her most!

my dc are at / were at a grammar school and no one does 4 a levels unless it’s maths / further maths (I’m assuming grammar school students would be classed as halfway bright by the previous posters scale - anyway universities will only offer in 3).

my children’s school did not offer sociology.

One took Politics, Geography and Psychology and is currently studying Philosophy and Politics at a highly ranked Uni.

The other is taking Biology, Chemistry and Psychology and received 5 offers to study Sociology at Uni.

DC1 enjoyed Politics A level but it was neither a help nor hindrance in getting onto his course. I think the only requirement was an essay based subject.

DC2 required an essay based subject for sociology and all we’re happy to accept Psychology for this purpose.

MN is weird about Sociology- a poster told me that if dc2 was clever enough to apply for the universities she did then she should apply to do a proper subject. Some factions of MN think sociology is for thickos and anyone with a hearty breakfast inside them can get an A* without even trying.

it is a rigorous subject and the fact that selective schools are offering it shows it’s well regarded.

And kitty is too humble to mention that her DD's favoured offer is from one of MN's most favourite and envied institutions!

I think the social sciences are looked down on because in many cases they are untried subjects, and the less academic pupils take them at A level. This was certainly the case at DD's school where a LOT of less able students took A level psychology.

What the snobs don't realise is just how difficult it is to get an A or A* in these subjects.

Our entry requirements are lower too at my school which doesn't help...

I should have added that a lot of the psychology students didn't have the grades to do most of the other subjects. They needed a grade B in English language for psychology but in fact quite a few got on to the course with a C. There were a lot of drop outs and some of these students were managed out of 6th form at the end of year 12 because they didn't achieve the minimum of D grades at AS level (this was in 2017).

Obviously, this wasn't a selective grammar school with lots of "halfway bright" students

@Piggywaspushed

Philosophy, mostly for PPE

When I was at Cambridge (25 years ago, admittedly) HPS ranked just a notch above Land
Economy as a joke subject. I'm sure that's not true now, but I find the idea that it's a prestige subject to rival maths, Natsci etc. rather unlikely. What makes you think this?

Of course, if a teenager is 100% sure she wants to study sociology, then it's not a bad A-level choice. The same might be true with philosophy.
(Personally I would far rather someone had done Greek or Maths, because they are more useful in the course and skills that can't be acquired easily at university.) But if someone isn't 100% sure, it's better to pick a subject that teaches more transferable skills.

It's HSPS. It's changed. More students applied for HSPS per place than virtually any other subject last year, . Your chances of getting in were very small. You can find those stats easily enough. It's branding itself as their answer to PPE.

I'd be intrigued to know why a science A level is more useful than a soc sci or hums one to PPE.

Of course PPE has produced many of the current Tory flock. Not sure it's admissions were all that discerning!

By the way, I know a young man doing hispol at OU. Sociology, history and politics A levels.

@massifcentral if you’re an admissions tutor and you’re favouring students with Greek a level then by default you seem to imply you favour those from private schools?

My dc1 is studying philosophy and politics and neither Greek nor Maths would help him. Obviously it may for some strands of philosophy it may.

Without checking, I think HSPS has been offered at Cambridge for about 5 years.

Just checked. HPS an entirely different degree.

What do you think HSPS is?

In my opinion, the most useful subject by some way would be a modern language.

Someone who works hard at A-level and spends a significant amount of time either in the country of origin or talking to native speakers will be at a very good level, functionally fluent, by the time they leave school.

One way to assess how valuable a subject is at A-level is to ask how difficult it would be to master the same material in later life. Most educated adults without any education in the subject could get a passing mark in sociology or politics after a few days of study. The same would not be true for Spanish or Chinese (or maths or physics, for that matter). So the cost of not taking Spanish at A-level is much higher than the cost of not taking sociology.

HSPS applicants last year 1800 , offers 188...

I think the flaw in your argument @massifcentral is that due to a lot of native speakers taking MFL at A level it is very hard to get a high grade for those who aren't. Universities have much lower offer grades for MFL as it isn't a particularly competitive subject.

As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, achieving a high grade at sociology is likely to make it easier to get offers from a highly regarded univerity than a lower grade in an MFL.

@KittyMcKitty

Of course we (admissions is collaborative) are not favouring students from private schools. Quite the opposite!

And if someone goes to an academy in Tower Hamlets with no record of Oxbridge admissions, then we don't give a flying fuck if they've done sociology, art, and psychology for A-level.

If someone goes to a private school, it's different. Three A-levels isn't great. Sociology isn't great. I would look for mostly 9s at GCSE. (I would be very concerned about anything below an 8.) Remember that, all things being equal (which they never are, quite), we would prefer to admit someone from a state school.

Three A Levels isn't great?? WTAF?!

No one no one needs to do 4 + A levels.

God , it's no wonder my DS's abiding feeling of the Cambridge admissions process is that he was seen as the great unwashed.

@RampantIvy

Do you do university admissions too?
The fact that someone would be put off by a subject because it's harder to get an A would be a very discouraging sign to me.

We admit a lot of students with A-levels in foreign languages from both state and independent schools. For our students it is not hard to get an A or, usually, an A*. That is why they are our students. We don't want to admit people who find A-levels difficult.

In reality, the standards achieved in modern A-levels are depressingly low. Many students with an A* in English struggle to write coherent English prose in essays.

I'm struggling to take you seriously @massifcentral when you state that three A levels is insuffcient. I assume that you are an Oxbridge admissions tutor?

My daughter has decide to do 4 a levels she is going sociology psychology criminology an politics she needs to decide what feels right for her what career is she looking at

Does her school make her do that? Because, honestly, that's a lot of work. Depending on the board and the choices the sociology teacher makes, there is overlapping content between sociology and criminology that might even confuse your DD.

Massive ROFL @ preferring Greek A level

Because that’s available at normal schools 🙄

I wonder how many state schools offer Greek A level?
Maybe a large 6th form college? Even the local ofsted outstanding and very highly regarded 6th form college doesn't offer Greek. However, they do offer Classic Civilisation.

One. One in our massive county that isn’t fee paying.

www.arlt.co.uk/resources/schools-that-teach-classics/

None in my county. The one that does is fee paying (just over £15k pa)

I've only just come back to this thread as been ill over the weekend and didn't realise it would have had quite so many replies! Will read & digest when I can, thanks!