How can I best help DD who is completely overwhelmed?

[OverInvestedMum]

Sorry if this is long.

DD is about to go into year 13. She is finding the whole UCAS / post 18 options overwhelming and is basically shutting down and not engaging.

I've said I'm happy to help with looking at things with her but her not doing anything when she finishes A levels is not an option. We had a heart to heart (with tears) and she admits that she will leave decisions to the last possible moment because she can't cope otherwise.

She agreed that if I gave her bite sized chunks of actions that might help.

She thinks she has an idea of a degree subject she wants to do (great!) I've given her 'homework' to look at different unis and courses so that she can choose some open days that I would accompany her to.

She's not done this despite me nagging. The 1st potential open days day are 10th September. She needs to book holiday from her part time job, I don't think she has.

Please can anyone who's been in a similar position advise what I can do for the best? Do I just leave her to it, not nag any more but make sure I'm available if she asks? I'm also wondering if she would benefit from some independent counselling or similar? Thanks.

it totally depends

sounds like she is ignoring the transition

I would book an open day and take her along and see if you can spot any enthusiasm for any of it

uni is not for everyone

I would also look at local apprenticeship options as earning and learning as a package is a good alternative

what are her closest friends likely to do?

"She sounds like she is suffering from anxiety related procrastination, which could become an issue for life, so nipping that in the bud is your priority"

(I'm using the app and can't work out how to quote)

This really hits the nail on the head for me and is my biggest concern . I don't think Uni is for everyone but without looking into it a bit more (or non uni options) how would she know? I'm worried if avoiding talking about it now will just 'kick the can down the road'.

I flunked my A levels, retook and then went to Uni. DH loved uni/academia so much he stayed on to do a PhD. I suspect this together with her 6th form setting targets to complete the UCAS forms might be making things worse.

I did try and break it down into bite sized pieces, and sat with her while she read a couple of course prospectuses and she sounded positive. I've made a list of unis//grades/distance from home and open days but to be honest I think she just wants to chill for the rest of the summer holidays.

I'll take your advise on board thank you - I'll suggest we go to a open day so that she can get a feel for it and take it from there. And I'll make it clear that she doesn't need to make any decisions now if she's not ready. I'll also look into CBT / other options because I think she's scared of making a 'wrong' decision and this might help her more in the long run.

OP,

I have just seen this thread and I completely agree with the advice. I am delighted you will look into counselling but as an academic who has been Personal Tutor for several students with anxiety/MH issues and/or a lack of enthusiasm about their studies, as well as sat on many Mitigating Circumstances Panels, I wanted to add another perspective.

We all bring ourselves wherever we go ( as I have read on MN). Directionless students, unmotivated students, students who begin uni with untreated MH problems - all are at a tremendous disadvantage. Their performance suffers, their problems spiral, it is a vicious circle and they end up with mediocre degrees that they didn’t even enjoy acquiring. At best. Please support your DD not to be one of those students.

DD is similar-going into yr 13, but there's one university she wants to go to, and she won't look at any others. She won't think about what might happen if she doesn't get on her preferred course.

We've agreed she will put other Uni's down on the ucas form, ones that we've researched and found to be similar, and then if she doesn't get an offer from her preference but does from one of these, she'll then go and look.

Would something like that work? She could put some courses down and go and look if she gets an offer - or not if she doesn't want to, and come up with another plan then?

I only looked around one university in advance — the rest were offer holder open days. Some of my friends went to so many open days, didn't apply to half of them and spent weekends travelling all over the place.

I'd honestly only go to one or two, then based the other on prospectuses/websites/talking to people who went to them. Stuff like city/campus/college can be helpful too in narrowing it down.

Offer holder open days are far more relaxed and you actually get chance to see the department and talk to staff.

(And give her a hug, it's a lot to think about! I think I'd let her enjoy the end of her holiday before going back to it.)

My daughter was exactly like this and has now accepted a place to study at a RG University and is looking forward to it.
What worked for her was doing the later open days, so we went in Oct/November.
Once term starts her school really ramped up info on apprenticeships and Uni. She had so much info pushed by the school as well as careers interviews, advice on degrees etc. By Christmas, we must have visited at least 10 universities. Some, we could discount straight away, but we never pushed her for a decision. I found she gradually came round to choosing through a combination of teachers advising her, speaking to friends and talking to uni students on open days.
I think she submitted her application the week of the closing date, but she was confident by this stage of what she wanted to do.

My DD was a bit like this. Did all the open days at end of year 12/beginning of year 13. Thought she wanted to go to uni then couldn't decide on a course so decided to take a gap year.
Then COVID happened and any potential gap year opportunities vanished. She made a late UCAS application, got five offers and is about to go into third year at a university she loves.
School will be pushing your DD and this will ramp up next term. Make sure she knows that the school deadlines are not the only ones. You can apply through UCAS right up to the start of term (if places are still available). Sometimes just removing the time pressure can make the difference and she might feel more in control.
Good luck!

@OverInvestedMum my DD is exactly the same and I sympathise. It's frustrating when people think you are pushing them in a particular direction. I really don't mind what she does after A Levels, but feel she needs to have some idea in her own mind. She's ruled out a gap year as 'noone else is doing it'. She vaguely likes the idea of uni but no idea where or what. When I mention research she gets stressed and argumentative. I have decided to do nothing for now and see what happens when she goes back for year 13.

@EnidSpyton has some good ideas. I'm also a sixth form college lecturer and have been sixth form tutors / 6th form leadership too.

I've seen lots of students who want to go, but are also overwhelmed by the decision making and fear making the wrong choice. Obviously, discuss other options, but if this is your issue..

Give her time, her ucas form does not have to be submitted until January, even if the school has an internal closing date before then. To be on the safe side, id say try and get it completed before you break for Christmas. By then, chances are she'll know more about her predicted grades and there will be more talk about it in school.

Do visit some unis, it is often really hard for them to envisage what going to uni will be like until they go. Visit a couple of really different ones. We visited 3 to start off with. the first two did nothing for my daughter, but the third totally changed her view. It was a much bigger uni, and she could see herself going there (in fact that is where she's starting next month).

Then, if she does want to go and it is the decision making that is stressing her out, talk to her about what she wants out of uni life, So does she want to go somewhere big. With lots going on? Or a smaller uni where people might know each other more easily? Eg uni of Gloucestershire where there are distinct campuses, so you only really get to know the people on your campus - much more intimate. Does she want a campus or a city uni? Does she want to go far from home or stay close by? Does she want to live in a large city or somewhere much smaller? I did this with my daughter last year, once we went through her requirements (max 2 hour drive, large town / small city in south England), she was only left with about 10 unis on her hit list. Made the process much easier rather than looking at a big long list and trying to remove particular unis.
Do a similar process with the courses she's thinking about too, and it will help to frame the decision making,

I have a DC in a similar position who finds decision-making hard at the best of times but the pressure from sixth form staff to have chosen universities and courses and to have written a personal statement by the end of Y12 did nothing to improve that. My DC isn't convinced university is going to be a good use of their time/money (the industry they think they want to go into doesn't require a degree and there are a number of other routes into it) anyway so the school pressure is actually pushing them further away from university and very nearly resulted in them not returning to complete Y13 (even though they are on track for getting As and A stars).

Knowing what DC is interested in, I found a local university that had an open day just before the summer holiday. A couple of days before, I sent the link to DC, asked if they would be up for going along just to tick a box/rule it out etc. and said we could pop along for an hour then go for lunch. They agreed and I registered. We went along, spent much longer than an hour there and DC found themselves engaging with the event way more than they'd anticipated. It also made them realise there are things they'd want from a uni that might not be offered by some of the smaller settings e.g. clubs and societies, on-site bars etc. Coming away from that with a paper prospectus has been great as they've been able to flick through at their leisure but without feeling overwhelmed by the entire internet (which has felt like a bit of a thing when trying to research themselves as adverts for similar courses pop up and it can be easy to fall down a rabbit hole). Every now and then I've looked for similar courses in the sort of place DC thinks they're interested in and where possible, have sent off for a real prospectus. Not everywhere does them which is a shame as having multiple tabs open on a laptop isn't the same as looking at a prospectus on the loo/wherever!

DC is now taking a pragmatic approach to the UCAS form and their school's demands, deciding they will complete it for deferred entry (2024), for courses that sort of interest them at places they sort of like. They've asked me to help with the initial personal statement so they've got a starting point and so school will leave them alone. If they are hit by a flash of inspiration for a course they'd love to do, or suddenly feel motivated to visit unis with friends then they can still do that but with the security of knowing a draft application has been done and they won't be nagged about it. Since deciding on this approach, DC has been much calmer about it all and is better able to engage with the process as a result.

I do sympathise and there’s lots of good advice here. DS1 didn’t apply in Y13. He wasn’t entirely sure what to study. At the start of his gap year, he did lots more research, decided on his choices and applied with grades in hand. Looks like DS2, same as as OP’s DD may well do the same. He is pretty sure about the subject but not locations!

Nothing much to add. But my DS wasn’t sure about uni in Y13 at age 17. So we said just go along with everything the school set out, and use them for all the support and advice available in Y13. So that’s how to fill out ucas forms, personal statements etc but take the pressure off yourself and concentrate on getting through your exams.

Then keep in mind you may get a firm or unconditional offer somewhere, may decide to take a gap year or may decide to decline everything and reapply in a year or two. But at least you can see how the system works.

Also open days occur throughout the year. And clearing is available if you change your mind about a uni.

Anyway, he ended up with two offers in Y13, but chose to defer and take a year out to work full time.

At 19 he’s about to start Uni in a couple of weeks and is actually really looking forward to both the course and the moving away from home. Such a change from how he felt at the start of Y13.

I would be encouraging a gap year over forcing a decision too quickly in this situation. A gap year could take many forms but if money allows I'd encourage a part time job or two followed by a short stint travelling (even just a longer holiday or 3) paid for by earnings. It's so hard for young adults to justify travel and taking time out of a career once in their 20s and renting/dating/saving etc so I think doing it before uni is a fab idea. It could build confidence and she can take risks with jobs knowing it isn't paying the rent etc.

Tell her it's fine not to go, but to apply anyway. That way you take the pressure off, but she's keeping her options open. My DS did that. His place was confirmed on results day but he's now deferred for a year. I think he probably will go in 2023, but there's no point unless he wants to. Not all courses will allow a deferral, but a lot will.

I thought i'd update this thread as people took the time to provide excellent advice and in case it's useful to anyone else.

I completely backed off until DD was back at 6th form and they started to pile on the pressure. I persuaded her to go to a uni open day. It was a revelation - one of the subject talks she found particularly inspiring and in the middle if the presentation DD turned to me and positively beamed!

So long story short - the visit helped her narrow down her degree choice and she's just submitted her UCAS application (which she mainly did by herself.) She said she's nervous but very exited and is now confident she wants to go Uni.

To be honest I'm not 100% sure she's ready but she knows she can change her mind / wait a year etc and I'll support her regardless. She appears to be a lot happier which is the main thing

DD is still a procrastinator though! Need to work on that next....

A positive update. Hope she gets the grades to go where she's chosen.

I'm so glad I stumbled across this thread. My DD is in Y13, was fine with all the decision making up until a couple of months ago. She decided to do maths, we talked about it a lot, and it seemed like it was the right thing for her, so she put her application in. Within a week or two of the application going in, she seemed to have some kind of breakdown, and now thinks she's made totally the wrong decision, she's wondering whether she should have applied to do medicine, but if I say "take a year out then and do medicine next year", I just get "but I don't know, I just don't know what to know", and then bursts into tears. She seems paralysed with indecision, and she's only happy if she doesn't think about it.

After reading this thread, I think she just needs to forget the whole thing until after her exams. I think she probably needs to take a year out, which doesn't bother me, but bothers her because she thinks she'll be left behind. I don't care if she doesn't go to uni at all, but the pressure to go isn't coming from me, it's coming from peers and school.

She wouldn't go to any open days in Y12, just wanted to concentrate on studying , and hates missing school, but she has been to one uni for an interview. I went with her, and thought it was lovely, as did she, but she spent most of the day crying, because it was forcing her to think about the whole thing. I'll encourage her to go to other uni offer days, but they're all for maths, and she now can't drum up any enthusiasm for doing maths at uni (even though, given a choice of how to spend her day, she'll sit there doing maths questions all day).

I've also told her to go to some medicine open days, but doesn't seem very enthusiastic about doing that either. She just doesn't want to think about it at all, it upsets her too much.

I do think it's the fear of the huge change that she sees heading her way, she just can't cope with it at all. It's a shock for us, as parents, because she's so independent, self-contained, sensible and grown up in her demeanour, that I assumed she'd just go off to uni fine, with no problems. I need to get used to it myself that this probably isn't going to happen.

@astuz

I really feel for you and your DD! I don't know if this helps but I think there were a number concerns my DD had and she needed to address them

1. Not knowing what career she wanted and if doing a 'general' (non STEM) degree was a waste of time. While this isn't true for your DD, why had she originally chosen medicine? Can she really see herself being a medic in the long run? Has she chosen it due to peer pressure etc?
2. DD had got it into her head that her favourite subject was not considered academic. I've no idea why - I showed her a list of hardest A levels (random internet site) where hers was listed at no. 1. Yet she is naturally good at it. Once she realised this it was a step change for her mentally. Perhaps your DD is concerned about following her gut choice that might not be medicine?
3. Cares too much what others think. She wouldn't visit Oxford as she was worried in case she saw someone she knew that would think she's not clever enough to be there! We joked about going in disguise. Not cracked that problem yet.
4. doesn't like change.

She needed a deadline to work through all this unfortunately, but given your DD has already applied perhaps she should 'park' it for now and just focus on her A levels? It's fine not to be sure and she can take comfort that she has time & options to change her mind.

Good luck!

@OverInvestedMum The medicine idea is coming from her boyfriend, who is applying for medicine. He's a lovely lad and even he thinks she should just stick with maths, but she's so smitten with him, she thinks everything he does is perfect.

The boyfriend thing is certainly a massive extra complication. I'm actually really hoping she just takes a year out now.

My DD was in a similar position last year, I posted asking for ideas and got a lot of helpful responses, most telling me to back off. I can't work out how to link to the thread here but I posted under this username.

DD felt the same - thought everyone else knew exactly what they wanted to do and she wouldn't engage AT ALL.

The tipping point was persuading her to go to a nearby university open day (one of the later ones) and she attended subject talks on a couple of her a-levels. I said it was just a general nose, she was under no pressure and it would be a lovely day trip out.

Outcome was her eyes were truly opened and she said the campus was like a centre parcs for 18 year olds. She then started doing a little bit of research and decided on a degree topic (slightly different to the ones she attended)

She's a procrastinator so did her PS entirely herself just before the school deadline in December, we didn't have chance to visit anymore open days as they were all finished so she researched online and picked 5 unis. I helped a little but the choice was entirely hers.

She got 5 offers and we went to all the offer holder days. She starts next weekend - she's nervous but also excited.

I think it's a very stressful time - not sure if my post helps but I wish your DD the best of luck in whatever she decides.

Wrong thread, meant to reply to another!

She's probably just not ready. There are many that take a year out before going to uni, it won't do her any harm at all to carry on with her part time job, maybe do more hours and consider her options with grades in hand.