How can I best help DD who is completely overwhelmed?

[OverInvestedMum]

Sorry if this is long.

DD is about to go into year 13. She is finding the whole UCAS / post 18 options overwhelming and is basically shutting down and not engaging.

I've said I'm happy to help with looking at things with her but her not doing anything when she finishes A levels is not an option. We had a heart to heart (with tears) and she admits that she will leave decisions to the last possible moment because she can't cope otherwise.

She agreed that if I gave her bite sized chunks of actions that might help.

She thinks she has an idea of a degree subject she wants to do (great!) I've given her 'homework' to look at different unis and courses so that she can choose some open days that I would accompany her to.

She's not done this despite me nagging. The 1st potential open days day are 10th September. She needs to book holiday from her part time job, I don't think she has.

Please can anyone who's been in a similar position advise what I can do for the best? Do I just leave her to it, not nag any more but make sure I'm available if she asks? I'm also wondering if she would benefit from some independent counselling or similar? Thanks.

Poor kid sounds overwhelmed. There's a huge amount of pressure in on young people in year 12/13 - intense studying, working and trying to make important life decisions all at the same time is a bit much for anyone. In this situation, I'd think about offering her a year of breathing room. She can come back to the decision in Autumn 2023 without any impact on her future, and just concentrate on finishing her A levels for now.

This absolutely 100%!

I would take the pressure right off.

Let her know the options in broad terms

1. go to uni and the support you can give her with that plus the steps to get there

2. get a full time job after A Levels for either a year or longer - spell out the board conditions at this stage too.

It might be that when she's back at school and her friends are talking about uni she gets more motivated to look around at her options.

I'd book an open day somewhere fairly close as a starting point. Did that with dd and she ended up really liking it and getting an idea of what to ask and look for in other visits.plus it was the most useful in telling her how to write her personal statement.

I'm another didn't know what I wanted.

Actually I did know, I wanted to leave school and work and if I couldn't do that take an art foundation course.

Nope, forced into a VI I hated, I only attended half the time and didn't fill in the, what was then, UCCA form.

I did go to uni in the end in my 30s.

She sounds like she is suffering from anxiety related procrastination, which could become an issue for life, so nipping that in the bud is your priority

Find a good young person’s counsellor through the school, GP, or UKCP (Psychologies magazine). CBT is the standard first treatment, but at her age she will a need a mix of that and general counselling to help her engage with the CBT. Make your you find someone experienced in young people and anxiety. Get her to talk to at least 3. Do some reading around the subject so you understand what’s going on for her.

Talk to her to see if she wants to go straight to university or take a year off. If she does want to go, then yes you are going to hand hold her through the process. It’s not ideal but she’s frozen right now, it doesn’t mean she doesn’t want to go. Book some times each week where you both sit down and do X, and then build up to tiny bits of homework.

If she doesn’t want to go for a year then you have more time, but make sure she builds a structured year off, not just working but gaining useful experience. It’s important she spends a good chunk of it away from home. If she is quite young emotionally, a structured year off can be a very good thing.

My DD (who suffers from anxiety and procrastination) took a year off (with no real plan) after high school before going to University (we're in the USA) and then went to a progression of lower level universities over 2 years before finally transferring to a prestigious one. She is now doing wonderfully and really just needed that time to figure things out on her own at her own pace. Several of her friends graduated a year before she did and several more of them became completely overwhelmed and dropped out of University. I think that an important part of all of this was that I supported her fully emotionally (and financially) with what she chose even if it seemed non-traditional and definitely not the route that I took.
Some kids need more downtime than others and more time to figure themselves out. Give your dd your full support to take a minute to catch her breath.

If she is overwhelmed, then your homework is pretty big and inaccessible. I think you need to break it down more.

So first perhaps she should make a list of all the unis that offer her course (perhaps within 3/4 hours drive if there are loads).

Task 2 is to write down the grades required at each. Cross out any that are unachievable.

Then task3 is to write down the open day dates next to each uni.

And so on. I think she needs your help to learn how to structure her thoughts for big decisions.

I was like this. Looking back now I'd have been much less overwhelmed if I took time out from my part time job.

I haven't taught A level for a while but if this were one of my students and you've rightly chatted about non-uni options and not found one that appeals, I would try to get her to one open day 'just to see what it's like'.

I used to do a lot of widening participation work when I was a student and one of the main barriers to getting people to consider uni was the fear of the unknown, with WP this is of course because of lack of family history of going to uni but it can still apply to those who wouldn't classically fit WP.

If you can get her out to an open day just to see what uni looks/feels like it will either put her off completely or spark a bit of interest. Easier said than done I know!

Maybe a gentle reminder that none of these plans need be set it stone. There will be pressure from so many sources right now and she needs to know that you'll be there as support. Try not to add to the pressure.

I was very similar to your DD. Ended up getting a place on a very good uni course but turning it down last minute as I realised it actually wasn't what I wanted, and then taking 4 years to work and decide what I actually wanted to do.

And I bet you were way more focused and enjoyed it more in your 30s. I wish people didn't pressurise teenagers to get into debt over courses they don;t really care about just because everyone else is doing it. If they need time, they should take it. They'll probably be working well into their seventies. No rush to find a vocation.

I really don't like the way uni is presented as the only option at a lot of sixth forms/colleges. It obviously looks good in their data/results if most go on to uni, but it doesn't suit everyone.

One of mine went off to uni very happily, my other DD decided it wasn't for her. Did a couple of different jobs, and has now found a great career at 21.

Agree with this. Some teen dc need a lot more support than others. It might be that your approach is stressing her out as much as the whole what to do post A levels question.

Please bear in mind too that at this stage of the summer holidays most kids of all ages are feeling a sense of ‘oh god, back to school soon’ dread. Even if they actually like school when they get there. Tbh for now I would back off completely- forget about the 11 September open day - there will be others. Let her get back to school, settle in to the routine for a couple of weeks. And then make a gentle plan with her.

As others have said there is no need to go to uni at all but if she does want to then she may just need more help and support with the process. It is worth looking at it with her in detail and doing some open days even if she then decides it’s not for her. She has until late January to submit an application. You have loads of time.

If she does decide to try for uni then key thing will be doing it with her-not overwhelming her by setting her a ‘challenge’ to investigate X or Y. Investigate stuff together to start with.

My DS has ASD and ADHD and can quickly become overwhelmed, so we did a lot of his uni research and open day planning together. Broke things down into baby steps and took things at his pace. He absolutely chose his preferred courses and unis to visit - but we sat down together and went through stuff rather than me saying ‘go and research psychology degrees!’ which would have achieved precisely nothing.

Open days are really helpful as they help give them an insight into what it’s going to be like. But again, help talk them through the logistics process of booking - do the online booking together - and make a plan for the day together.

And be ready to be flexible. We went to one open day last autumn and lasted an hour before DS went into stressed out mode - totally overwhelmed - hated it. So we left. I could tell he wasn’t coping, no point in pushing it, so we went home, had a chat and struck that uni off the list. At other open days he absolutely loved it.

It is really tough supporting teens but sometimes a softly softly approach can be very productive. Good luck OP.

Hi OP, I'm a secondary teacher with lots of experience in this area thanks to having been a Y12 form tutor forever...

Your DD isn't unusual in feeling overwhelmed and unsure. This is a hugely challenging time in her life with pressure coming from every direction. The safe, ordered world of childhood that she's known for years is about to be taken from her and she's now, for the first time in her life, expected to make her own decisions about what path she wants her life to go down. If your DD is from a middle class background (which I'm sensing she is) the pressure will be on to go to uni like everyone else, and even if there is a niggling sense that she doesn't want to do that, the thought of not doing what everyone else is doing and being 'left behind' or 'missing out' will also be preying on her mind. There's a sense of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Added on to this, I find that many young people have a very fixed, almost catastrophic mindset about uni, believing that if they don't choose the 'right' uni or the 'right' course, they'll have screwed their lives up forever. So even if they do want to go to uni, the pressure of choosing the right one can also be paralysing.

My suggestions would be:

1. Sit your DD down and make it perfectly clear to her that she doesn't have to go to uni next year if she doesn't feel she wants to, and that you will support her in whatever she wants to do. Take that pressure of 'uni is the only option' off her shoulders right now and ensure she understands that she has as much time as she wants to make choices. It doesn't have to be that she has something definite lined up for next September.
2. Find the open days of whichever unis are most local to you and take DD to have a look around. Don't rely on her to organise and don't worry about it being a uni she necessarily wants to go to - this is all about her just familiarising herself with what a uni campus is like and getting a feel for the student experience. Making these sorts of no pressure exploratory trips just to take a look are a really great soft way to start introducing anxious young people to the idea of uni.
3. Introduce her to the other things she could do other than go to uni. Work, travelling/volunteering, an apprenticeship, and so on. Look at options together and see if anything excites her. Make it clear that there are other options. Many schools are not very good at this part of career counselling and the push push push of uni means that young people can be entirely ignorant of what else is out there.

I would also suggest that you contact her form tutor or another trusted teacher she has at school and ask them to have a gentle word with her. I was often asked to do this by parents. Sometimes they won't tell you what's going on, but they'll tell a teacher they like and trust. It may be that there's something else happening under the surface that's impacting how she feels and she feels she can't tell you for whatever reason. Getting some pastoral support from school could be really helpful.

I've taught many kids who weren't ready for uni - most took gap years and then ended up going after them, once they'd had the time and headspace from school and exams to work out what they really wanted. Others ended up going straight into work and never looked back. It takes courage to tread a different path, but ultimately if your DD isn't ready, there is no point in forcing her to go or putting pressure on her to make choices she's not ready to make. Surround her with support, encouragement and options, and let her choose her own path when she's ready.

Your daughter is sending clear messages to you OP in her actions not her words. She’s not ready yet to make these decisions or she doesn’t want what you do for her.

The worst thing you can do is push, this is something she needs to do for herself by herself and she needs to know she has your backing. What it sounds like is if she doesn’t do as you wish, in your timeframe you will be displeased. You’ve given her no alternatives and maybe it’s the alternative she wants.

Uni will be there next year or the year after or ten years later if that’s what she wants but it has to be her decision

I’d help her apply. If she has told you the subject, it will be easy enough for you to pick a course and a handful of universities and help her apply for it, subject to her approval. Even if she gets the place and the grades, she doesn’t have to take the place up - she can defer or not go at all. Basically what I’m saying is that going to university is a year away. If when the time comes she doesn’t want to go, then she doesn’t have to - someone in clearing will happily take the place up. If she has changed her mind during the year, she can look in clearing or take a gap year. I would try to apply to universities that are relatively nearby so that you can offer support if she needs it.

At her age I didn't want uni and went travelling instead, had adventures, paid my way by working wherever I ended up and it was a fantastic journey of self discovery. I ended up going to uni at 34.
If I had gone to uni at 18 I'd have been doing it out of duty, really dragging my heels and I am certain I would have failed/scraped by and my self esteem would have been through the floor. Instead I came home after 3 years feeling I could take on anything. Now I'm doing just fine and living a good life.
The fact she has a job now is good and I think you're statement doing nothing is not an option is really unhelpful, as a pp said saying there are always alternatives and options is really important.
Your homework task is huge for someone feeling like her.
Apprenticeships, travelling, volunteer work, live-in job away from home, uni, etc etc are all valid choices.

What do you mean by that? Everyone has to do something after A-Levels, we can’t go into suspended animation, so that means getting a job or continuing in education, both of which need thinking about ahead of time.

Send off for a few physical prospectuses. I think they are far more accessible than uni websites. It will give an idea of all the different courses, as well as some info on campuses, accommodation, student unions etc. Both my DCs found them a great starting point.

If you live near a uni you can just have a wander round. Most of the campus based ones are also open to the public.

If you can book on to a couple of open days, they give a great insight into uni life, but be warned - they are hectic, overcrowded and can be about overwhelming unless you have planned out the talks and tours you want to do beforehand.

Where do you live? If it’s within day-trip distance of the sort of university that she’d possibly like how about driving her out there for a wander round?

If you really want to show her what may be possible then go and have a walk round the university parks in Oxford, or along the river past the boathouses, or punting along the Backs in Cambridge.

I was like her. Also dropped out at a levels to work an apprenticeship. It was not great but having the real world experience kind of cleared my head.

A few years later I did an access course and got into oxbridge uni :)

The time out of education and being told what to do allowed me to focus and get a plan together of what I wanted for my future more broadly.

What’s the rush, OP?

Many kids don’t decide which uni to go to (or in fact whether to go at all) until clearing, which is less than a month before the start date.

Unless she’s going to Oxford/Cambridge, which have an early application cut off date, she doesn’t need to decide yet.

Let her focus on her A levels and being a sixth former.

'Happy to help' usually means 'get on and do it and I'll mither you til you do'

I'd just back off a bit.

Based on a conversation with a friend's son several weeks ago I think the pressure for some young people to go to uni might be overwhelming. Friend's son had completed his A levels and I asked his plans. He said he wasn't at all sure about uni and had wanted to look into an apprenticeship. His teachers and the careers adviser were wholly focussed on university as the next step - he felt pressured. When he mentioned looking into apprenticeships/other options he says they had no interest and careers adviser was zero help so he just got on with looking into it himself.

He did submit an application to keep the school off his back and to keep the option open, but said he really doesn't fancy to start working life with a massive debt hanging over him. I can understand that. He's taking a year out and working rather than rushing it all.