Pressure on Uni places due to international fees and greedy Unis ?

[Neapolitanicecream]

Hello, a number of students have not got offers this year at our 6th form, from the top popular uni courses, students who were predicted range of A* to A, so expected offers. Coincidentally I was talking to admissions person at top London Uni who confirmed that increasing international students intake. I can only assume to create more Uni profit !!!

Greed or just trying to keep the books balanced?

Universities have faced year on year cutbacks the same as every other sector. It’s not greed, it’s generating income to run a business.

This is a complex one. The rise in "International" applications is roughly the same as the fall in EU applications post-Brexit (which was a separate category for fees). The lack of offers for this year's UK cohort is mainly due to the huge numbers of students with excellent grades who deferred entry for a year last time (there weren't enough places in the system following the Teacher Assessed Grades).

(I'm a teacher who helps students with UCAS applications; I could probably dig out sources for these claims if you're interested!)

Universities don't make profits, they are charities.

The home student fee of £9,250 has barely changed since it was introduced in 2013 and with inflation it's worth far less that that now.

International students are basically subsidising UK students. It's probably not right or fair but that's how it is.

There’s a few reasons for the squeeze. The population bulge of 18 year olds is peaking this year and the following 2 years. Lots of courses either over recurred last year on the CAGs or got students to defer, so the offers being made this year will be as dead on as possible to return to standard numbers. Though, clearing will probably be busy this year as we will have the more usual spread of grades and not the CAG grades given last year.

The international market is ok, but certainly not booming and there’s still uncertainty.

I think it will be a couple of years before things settle down again. Clearing will be... interesting, as the grade distribution won't be completely back to normal until next year. CAGs and TAGs were probably a least-bad solution but they had a lot of unintended consequences!

(My own DD is in this cohort, and I'm very relieved that she'll be going to an art school where grades are irrelevant thanks to her portfolio. It's a horrible year for her friends.)

Exactly. Speaking as the parent of an international student with offers but also 3 predicted A * and an A.

Why do you think there is a rise in international students? I can see there would be more than during the pandemic but the UCAS UCAS JAN 2022 Applicant data suggests it's not increasing. Maybe more international students are applying to the top universities or maybe there has been a rush since January but I wonder what the actual data says.

I bet the data is there to find I just can't be bothered to find it right now. 🤪HERE

Oh no I didn't mean to post the funny face at the end of my post !! 😅

The unis are paying in VC upto £300,000 that is not poor unis

It’s more the STEM subjects at all top unis and masters for some at 70% international

It’s almost like they are trying to cover costs isn’t it?

They make a loss on every home student, especially in the STEM subjects that are much more expensive to deliver with lab classes, specialist equipment etc. Fees have been capped for years and costs rising with inflation. If the government won't change the way universities are funded they will have to change the proportion of home: international students to stay afloat.

Evilpea are you employed by a Uni any chance? So no room for a reasonable discussion on given national students a shot at STEM at a top UNI without the increasing height grade expectations

No. Never been to Uni either, couldn’t afford it.
just aware like everything they’ve been cut to the bones and this is the product

That this would be a tough year for the current cohort has been known for a while. As PPs have said, there are several factors here: this is a good summary.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ucas-british-alevel-department-for-education-gcse-b970848.html

Admissions are tough across the world this year because of students deferring. DS has international friends who have got 45/45 on the IB ( If you are familiar with the IB you will know how hard that is) and still rejected from Oxbridge and the top US unis. STEM, Economics and Medicine particularly competitive.

The other significant factor is that the UK now offers international students a two year work visa after graduating. This wasn't always the case, but it was introduced after British unis could not make ends meet, especially in the pandemic.

from the top popular uni courses, students who were predicted range of A to A, so expected offers*

Someone should have managed their expectations better. While they might make the grade requirements there are always more students with the entry requirements than places on these competitive unis/courses and it is a risk to only apply to what are perceived as the top unis. They should have had at least one uni that they were happy to go to that was a plan B.

Some students were also paid to defer to this year, thousands of pounds to defer and their first choice of uni accommodation. Quite the sweet deal. Ds wasn't offered it nor would he have been persuaded to defer. My friend's daughter did defer for medicine so she goes this September.

This means that available spaces on courses were less in the home category. I know there was some kick off when applicants applied to particular colleges at, I believe, Oxford only to find there were no places actually available due to deferrals from the previous year filling them.

And yes grades are only one part of it. Oxford for example has an AAA entry, how many students do you think they accept on that grade compared to 3 A stars or more? I think we were told it was something like 40% for 3 A stars and more. The other stuff gets listed on a personal statement, competitions they have taken part in, essays they have had published, courses they have completed, books read, talks listened to, summer schools, masterclasses etc. They are called supercurriculars. Grades are not enough at the top universities because most applicants are applying with top grades. Ds's course was 1 A star and 2 As, Ds got 4 A stars.

At our school the students in this position are those applying for medicine where numbers are restricted anyway and the large numbers of deferrals from the past couple of years have made competition even higher than usual. There are lots of kids who have tips predicted grades but haven’t had offers from some top universities but more at have an offer from somewhere because they will have made sure that along with their applications to oxbridge, lse, Durham etc they will have put in an application to a lower rated (outside of top 10) university which has a lower grade requirement for their course.

It will sort itself out. This year we are back to the normal situation where a prediction means nothing if you crash and burn in the exam.

The prestigious Russell Group of universities says institutions are making a loss of £1,750 a year teaching each home student because tuition fees have remained almost static for 10 years and have not kept pace with inflation. On average, universities will be losing £4,000 a year on every UK undergraduate by 2024, the group says. Experts say some may end up pulling out of teaching UK students, focusing entirely on international students and postgraduates.

amp.theguardian.com/education/2022/jun/29/uk-universities-warn-tuition-fee-crisis-could-mean-home-student-cutbacks

@Neapolitanicecream I work for a good university and there was a whole raft of redundancies a couple of years back. They don’t make profits as they’re charities but they do have to cover costs, which are huge. Believe me, I’d be paid more elsewhere.

I thought the count of international spaces was capped for every course. Is it only capped for medicine?

It's far more complex.
Universities are not doing well financially - lots of cuts, additional costs etc and as it's already been pointed out they are charities so are not making profits. Without international fees there wouldn't be as many universities for uk students to apply to!

It's a challenging market at the moment for applicants and much of this is to do with huge numbers of deferrals last year

Universities can't take an infinite number of international students - the number is capped. So while we have seen a huge increase in international applications not all of them will be offered places.