Is it true that clever people go to 6th form and people who aren't go to college

[thistimeiknowitsforreal]

Evening all,

It was always drummed into me that after GCSE`s that if you are intelligent you went to or stayed at school and went to 6th form depending on your previous circumstances.

But if you weren't good enough you went to college instead.

Whats your experience in this area ?

I have to say, I didn't actually know that a college just for sixth form was a thing. I thought it was an expression people were using. We didn't have any in our area, it was school or FE college or work.

I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?

The sixth form college my son attends offers about 30 different A levels and has about 2500 students. His secondary school didn’t have a sixth form but some schools in the area do.

oh I had enough of school by GCSE so left. Spent a year working. I then went and did an apprenticeship and went to university and now earn well with a great job :) I have plenty of prospects and plan to do more study. I’m not less/more intelligent than those that did either, just different priorities. It depends on what you want to do. A-levels straight to uni? Go for it. College and/or apprenticeship fabulous! There’s so much choice. There no need to label each other as less intelligent.

I live in South Hants. Schools don't have 6th forms.

Peter Symonds college in Winchester takes around 2000 pupils per year. This college is primarily A levels. You want to study any combination of A levels however weird? They can almost certainly timetable it.

There are maybe 3 other colleges offering good range of A levels within reach.
Then there are 2-4 colleges offering various standard vocational courses.
My DD is at the agricultural college.

There is pretty much nothing you can't study within a 1hr door to door bus, or a 30min direct drive.

It seems like a good idea. In my area you could change schools at sixth form, my sister did that.

No, because the colleges do ALevels too.

I thought that sixth form is less hands on. My son wasn't able to work more than one day while at sixth form. Did lots of work but not much life skills.

Daughter doing alevels at college, needs to navigate buses and things and work 3 days a week. Just more life experience.

I think the college system in Hants has a lot going for it. Primarily that pupils have to make an active choice as to what they want to study, they can't passively stay at school because they are too scared of change. It is also a step towards independence which will help transition to adulthood / university.

On the down side not all students are ready for the independence, and pastoral care can be less good than at schools. There is also an issue with getting guidance for some students as the school knows the students but not the courses, and the colleges know the courses but not the applying student.

I hated school and wasn't considered clever enough for sixth form so went to local Further Ed college where I did more career based A levels. I was much happier at the college that catered to adult learning with mature students alongside the teens, rather than the school where you were treated as a child. It changed my whole perspective on learning and I went on to get a PhD so don't think it matters much.

No. My DB who is incredibly clever but hated school didn’t bother with 6th form. Went to college and got his A levels, all A * and then went to uni and got a 1st class degree. From what he said it was not as uncommon as you’d think. I’m far less academic than her and stayed in 6th form and got my a levels but definitely did not do as well as her.
The norm is to stay in school if your academic but some kids will choose to go to college for social reasons or because there career goals are better suited to college.

"I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?"

The 6FC near me is large. It takes about 3,000 students from about a 25 - 30 mile radius and across 4 different counties. Some schools in the area are 11-16, but others do not, depending on where the students come from.

Yes, 6FC do tend to offer more choice, both across A levels and within them, so for example, you could choose history or Ancient history, and within history there will be different options such as modern (WW2), Victorian era or Say the Tudors and Stuarts.

In terms of grammar school students, it does happen occasionally but is rare. There are some that don't get in to the grammar's sixth form, others I have seen wanted to go mixed sex for sixth form or didn't want the travel. However, the college has several going off to Oxbridge every year, so is academically sound too.

I have friends whose children left grammar schools to attend both 6FC & FE colleges because of more subject choice and better/specialist teaching.

I can't picture how they work, are they tiny? Or do schools in those areas tend not to offer A Levels so they have more intake? Do you have more choice of subjects due to it being dedicated?

The one near us is huge where as the sixth forms intake in local schools are tiny. None of the town centre schools offer A Levels, it's the rural schools that do, transport is limited and expensive, the journeys are pretty gruelling, the subject choices are limited.
The college offers a lot more subjects as well as vocational courses and a lot of extra curricular activity.

None of the (highly rated by Ofsted) schools around here have 6th forms so there's no choice to stay on. Our local FE colleges require minimum grades for A level and offer excellent Btec options too.
There's a choice of two colleges nearby and I get the feeling parents who see their kids as 'academic' tend to want them to attend the smaller 6th form college rather than the larger FE college.
Both mine went/are going to the FE college to do a mix of traditional/other subjects (maths, English, philosophy, music tech), it's a brilliant half way house between school an uni and gets excellent results at A level and Btec.

In our area school 6th forms are tiny or non existent, I know of at least two schools who closed their 6th forms in the last 5-6 years as no one wanted to go their.

The 6th form at ds’s school has a cohort of approx 70 per year and offers 14 A level subjects. The Catholic grammar is larger with just under 200 per year & 23 A levels offered.

The 6th form college & FE college are much larger. Both offer a very wide range of A levels and have good results.

Nah. I went to both. Got ADD at 6th form. Got AAA at college.

I think it varies wildly by area. Our local secondary (we have one) has a 6th form, but it is run as a separate entity to the school with its own head, no uniform and it also offers vocational pathways. In our nearest larger town there are about 5 secondaries, three of which have their own 6th form. There's also a 6th form college offering A levels as well as vocational courses so again, a mix.

Quite a few of our local students have their 6th form experience elsewhere because the course they want to do isn't offered here. Our local 6th form is selective for A levels - you need a minimum 6 at GCSE for your course, 7 and up is recommended for maths and the sciences.

There were no sixth forms attached to schools in my county. There were colleges which had various entry requirements, some required better exam results than others. If your child wants to do a particularly course then they might be better going to a vocational college or a more academic one. I don't think it matters if people think that "clever" people do one or the other - just do whats right for you.

All the local schools here have sixth forms and offer A levels. The large local college only offers combined A levels so you can take only one A level along side another course such as a btec. So yes here the brighter students stay at school.

Absolutely not. My son went from GCSEs to do engineering apprentice then did open university degree. He is very clever and decided to get up the ladder quicker he needed hands on knowledge as much as academic qualifications. At 28 he is management and earning a fortune. If you have the ability and drive you will do well with or without qualifications.

No. My sixth form college did not offer the A Levels that the HE college did.

Maby it isn't the case any more

Why are people who do/did A levels always looked at as being smarter ?

Whereas someone who studied cooking or hair at college not looked at being smart ?

It isn’t necessarily that people doing vocational qualifications aren’t ‘smart’. Broadly speaking, academic qualifications such as A Levels have higher GCSE entry requirements. Those with higher GCSEs have traditionally and continue to mostly go onto academic qualifications such as A Levels or IB. Some with high academic qualifications have always chosen vocational post-16 education, but most haven’t and broadly speaking, those doing the vocational route have less strong GCSEs. Some will usually be re-taking English or Maths GCSE alongside their vocational qualification.

’Smart’ is usually seen in academic terms and the measurable method is GCSE results. Of course you can say ‘smart’ isn’t always reflected in that form. Lots choosing something vocational might be smart in other ways that are equally valid. But our society continues to place high value on academic measurable qualifications. To get onto the most competitive courses at 6th Form level in the most sought after places, higher GCSEs are required, and then to get into the most sought after courses in the most highly regarded universities, high A Levels are required. To get places on the most sought after post-grad training schemes in the most highly paid industries, top GCSEs, A Levels and degrees from top institutions are required.

However, success and ultimately happiness in life can be achieved through lots of routes. There are always people on MN who say they have top academic qualifications but have never had a successful career or enjoyed what they do. And there are always those who have become incredibly successful through different routes.

In that case then why don`t more say middle class parents encourage their kids to do something practical ?

I did. I. HATED my school, it was stuffy and bitchy and 6th form still treated students like children (strict dress codes, having to be on site all day even during free periods etc) so I chose to go to college to get away from all that and be treated like an adult. Went from college to RG uni, got 2:1 in my degree and then went on to do my Masters. Am now in one of those higher earning jobs that everyone hates on Mumsnet.

It's all bollocks OP, it may have been like that in the 80s but people now make choices not to stay on at 6th form for various reasons, it's got nothing at all to do with intelligence