How important are university rankings?

[Neolara]

My dd is in year 13 and thinking about universities. She is pretty academic ( mostly 9s at GCSEs from bog standard comp, predicted A, A,A*,A plus an A in EPQ) and is applying to Oxford. However, the course she is applying for only accepts 1 in 10 applicants so I'm assuming her chances of getting in are slim.

Her current next favourite university (York) seems to be somewhere that comes out around 25th to 30th on the list of uni rankings for her subject. I suspect she could fairly easily get into unis much higher up the list. But to what extent does it matter about the rankings? Am thinking about future employability really. She mainly seems to be making her choice based on it being a pretty town and small campus.

Firstly, with those predictions, I'd guess she'd likely get an offer at anywhere else!

The 'prestige/name' of the Uni would/could matter in some circumstances, depending on the industry/career.
Am sure people will be along to advise, if you could let them know the subject/poss career, as it's a bit too vague to definitively answer.

E.g. is getting a degree from Top 10 better than Top 30, probably mostly.
Is getting a 1st from Top 30 better than a 2:1 from Top 10, poss sometimes. Etc, etc.

Some industries will want the Uni, some will want the grade, some both.

And bear in mind that a significant number of students at Top 30/50 still get 2:1+ as you're only competing with your course colleagues.

I would have thought that she would be better off considering the courses on offer at each university and which would suit her best. Very often courses with the same name are very different and nearly as much what type of place she wants to spend 3 or 4 years of her life living.

Most employers are pretty unlikely to know subject rankings. They might well go on academic reputation which is a slightly different thing. The rankings include some metrics that employers don't care about.

York is Russell Group and highly regarded.

Your DD doesn't sound quite academic!

I agree subject might help for posters!

Universities higher up the subject league tables might be lower in overall tables.

Nothing wrong with considering location.

Full disclosure: DS applying to Cambridge with York second!

I would suggest she looks at the course specifications, find a course she's really interested in (they can vary a lot) then think about the place the university is situated in rather than looking at rankings.

I'm not saying university reputations don't matter, but actually public perception (and thus employers perception) is rarely in tune with the rankings anyway. Also some "lower" universities have niche specialisms. Finally there's many ranking systems that have different emphasis and changes outcomes. Basically there's universities ranked in the 50's and 60's that are very good but don't conform to narrow criteria like graduate employment because students have gone into family businesses as an example

Your daughter’s received and predicted grades suggest she enjoys intellectual challenge and working at a high level. She’s going to spend 3 or 4 years minimum at university and, frankly, needs to factor in the level of teaching, and the likely capabilities of her fellow students if she wants to spend her undergraduate years happily. So she should be looking at the places that have the highest reputations, impressive research, admired practitioners engaged in undergrad as well as graduate teaching … That kind of thing.

I have no idea about York and don’t know her subject so am only speaking generally, not casting aspersions!

The course rankings could change by up to 20 places during the time she is there in any case!

That’s true, Piggywaspushed - which is why she needs to dig more deeply into what each place actually has to offer, academically.

I was attacked on another thread for saying that some people believe that not all universities are the same, ie some are targeted more than others by employers. It will be interesting to see of those posters pop up on this thread too.

York is generally thought of as a very good university. To most employers, that will matter more (along with her degree result, of course) than the exact ranking of the university - especially because the latter moves around quite a bit. A uni that is currently higher could end up being lower by the time she is applying for jobs in a few years!

Best to choose somewhere she thinks she'll be happy.

Can we be clear the OP mentioned SUBJECT ranking...

@Hdhdjejdj

I was attacked on another thread for saying that some people believe that not all universities are the same, ie some are targeted more than others by employers. It will be interesting to see of those posters pop up on this thread too.

You were attacked because you quoted one survey with no understanding of how that survey is undertaken or the data constructed, then extrapolating to all universities, all subjects and all sectors. You were also attacked because you ignored the fact that OP's dc had already rejected Oxford and was clearly struggling with the notion of being too far from family - so your post was irrelevant. Remember - kids need to a)complete their degrees, and b) graduate with intact MH to enable them to process to employment they find worthwhile. Simply getting to uni supposedly favoured by employers isn't enough.

For the record OP, York is fab, and very few employers will be aware of its individual subject table rank, let alone use it as a selection method. Plus they change each year!

Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far. The subject is maths and she says all the courses she's looked at so far seem to have very similar content.

She doesn't really know what she wants to do after uni, but I suspect it will be more applying maths to real life problems ( eg using maths in a company that uses biology or technology) than research or finance.

DS's top choice is Lancaster, with Aberystwyth as second. He's one of the few mumsnet offspring that isn't going to get a handful of A*s but works really hard and I will be proud of what he gets (probably BBB).

I suspect it will be more applying maths to real life problems might I suggest she looks at Birmingham. My niece has just graduated with a Masters in maths from there and chose it for that very reason. I would also urge her (and anyone) to look at the course first. Not all courses are the same even if they have the same name.

@Pieceofpurplesky

My son is similar, won't get all the A* grades, but will potentially looking at ABC predictions.

He's looking at course content - as even though course title is the same, content very different!

Looking at some Russell Group, some not!

I wondered if you would turn up @titchy I quoted a survey that many of the universities themselves rely upon. I gave no specific advice to the OP who started that thread. I was responding to something another poster raised in the course of discussion.

Has she looked at Warwick (Maths or MORSE?) Imperial also top tier for Maths.

@Neolara

Thank you everyone for your thoughts so far. The subject is maths and she says all the courses she's looked at so far seem to have very similar content.

She doesn't really know what she wants to do after uni, but I suspect it will be more applying maths to real life problems ( eg using maths in a company that uses biology or technology) than research or finance.

A quick look at the websites of York and Oxford tells me that at the former "the main focus of your final year is your individual project" whereas at the latter in year 3 one has a choice of optional courses to study. I would suggest that is quite a significant difference in content. That's before one introduces universities like Warwick where 50% of the 3rd year could in subjects other than mathematics.

@nodtik same. He was rather tempted by the unit on the politics of Star Wars at Warwick

Applying from an ordinary comp will boost her chances of getting into Oxford. She stands a much higher chance of being offered a place than someone from an independent school.
York is a great uni and a lovely place to spend three years though.

She stands a much higher chance of being offered a place than someone from an independent school.

Don't want to start another debate but that really is a misunderstanding of statistics!

@asadlittleflower

Applying from an ordinary comp will boost her chances of getting into Oxford. She stands a much higher chance of being offered a place than someone from an independent school. York is a great uni and a lovely place to spend three years though.

No she won't - I do wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. Unless she has contextual flags (care leaver, low POLAR postcode, very poor performing school for example) simply being at a state school won't make any difference to how her application is treated.

I’m an actuary and recruit a lot of maths graduates.

I’m surprised that York is so low for maths - it is definitely in our “recruit from here” list.

Agree that Warwick is really good for maths.

Also, Bath - likewise a campus and pretty location and very good for Maths.