How important are university rankings?

[Neolara]

My dd is in year 13 and thinking about universities. She is pretty academic ( mostly 9s at GCSEs from bog standard comp, predicted A, A,A*,A plus an A in EPQ) and is applying to Oxford. However, the course she is applying for only accepts 1 in 10 applicants so I'm assuming her chances of getting in are slim.

Her current next favourite university (York) seems to be somewhere that comes out around 25th to 30th on the list of uni rankings for her subject. I suspect she could fairly easily get into unis much higher up the list. But to what extent does it matter about the rankings? Am thinking about future employability really. She mainly seems to be making her choice based on it being a pretty town and small campus.

Unfortunately someone told her that everyone they knew who had gone to Warwick didn't like it. She's also not keen on London unis. Bath was definitely a contender at some point.

@Pieceofpurplesky 😜😜😜 I love the idea of that module! Xx

Mate of DS2's is at Bath doing maths and loving it. He is on a placement year this year and earning £££ btw. Presume that is due to his own dedication to finding the placement rather than the uni.

I always understood Warwick was really good for maths but not got any personal experience. DD loved it and it was her top choice (not for maths) but she didn't get the grades.

Definitely have a look at MORSE - Southampton offer it as well as I see Warwick is now off the list. Some other universities offer a slightly more diluted version with different subjects but all still very employable.

In all honestly I think at this stage, with her predicted grades and the subject she is interested in, I’d put less emphasis on uni ranking and more on course content. Employers will always have a list of unis they recruit from regardless of their current year ranking. A lot of London unis rank low due to student satisfaction but employers aren’t looking at that.

No they do not matter at all, I originally attended a top 10 university to study Bioscience but found the teaching and support to be poor quality. Most lectures were simply the lecturer reading a power point at you and offering no guidance apart from trying to push their own publications for profit. I moved for years 3 and 4 to a London University slightly lower down the rankings and the teaching and support was excellent, the lecturers held Q and A sessions, went out of their way to support you and inform you of career choices and used a variety of teaching techniques. I'm now on a graduate scheme over 30k a year doing engineering leadership and project management.

Just to add I haven't heard great things about Oxford, one of my close friends went there and felt isolated he said. My friends brother also went there and left to attend UEA after the first year due to feeling unsupported and having a breakdown.

@Pieceofpurplesky

DS's top choice is Lancaster, with Aberystwyth as second. He's one of the few mumsnet offspring that isn't going to get a handful of A*s but works really hard and I will be proud of what he gets (probably BBB).

No, there are loads of posters' kids who will get BBB and be quite rightly proud of that, we just won't get to hear about it every 5 mins

@halloweenie13

Just to add I haven't heard great things about Oxford, one of my close friends went there and felt isolated he said. My friends brother also went there and left to attend UEA after the first year due to feeling unsupported and having a breakdown.

I've heard of similar experiences.

It very much depends on her career ambitions. If she wants to work for the Bank of England or in investment banking, she would struggle if she didn’t go top tier. Academia, or big accountancy firm, top tier will help open doors but a good candidate, especially one who cultivates contacts, can also get in. School teaching, for example, university is largely irrelevant.

Bath was ds insurance choice for Maths, he liked the course a lot. Bath also have excellent industry links and I have heard from a friend who works at The Treasury that they are very keen on Bath graduates

I'm a York graduate and I'm surprised to hear that the maths rankings are that low. I had quite a few friends who did maths and all have great careers now. I also I had quite a lot of friends who's first choice had been Oxbridge and York was their insurance.

It's a RG uni that's well known with a good reputation and a lovely campus. I'd let her choose what she's happy with (though I accept I'm biased!)

Lots of companies are just interested if you’ve got at least a 2:1 and for government jobs you have to remove the university’s name from your CV. In a way I think it’s maybe easier to get a 1st class in a lower ranked uni so might be more beneficial to go to one of those 😂

I went to St Andrews Uni which was ranked in top 5 for the UK and I don’t think it’s made any difference in terms of employment. I did get a good education and experience so appreciate it for that.

I'm a post-16 tutor and have worked closely with A Level leavers over the years.
In my experience, as other posters have said, the course content is what's important, and feeling comfortable at the university.

From memory, good outcomes for Maths students in previous years have come from Warwick, Birmingham, Nottingham, Glasgow, Imperial and UCL (as well as Oxbridge)

Alumni often come back to talk about their experiences and these are the ones that crop up often in the "maths kids"
Just anecdotal this, but thought it might be useful.

@clary

Mate of DS2's is at Bath doing maths and loving it. He is on a placement year this year and earning £££ btw. Presume that is due to his own dedication to finding the placement rather than the uni.

I always understood Warwick was really good for maths but not got any personal experience. DD loved it and it was her top choice (not for maths) but she didn't get the grades.

Bath have loads of links with industry and many students do placement years, so whilst students have to apply for the opportunity and be selected it is very far from true to say that it is their own dedication and effort to find the place.

I think most employers now look at ability and potential, not what university you went to. Even London law firms. Although there was one recruiter on here a few weeks ago saying they would only look at RG - their loss I guess!

Anyway, if you are worried about rankings York is a top 20 university (based on the recent Times rankings). I am also biased as my son is there, but not doing Maths. However, a good friend of mine did an MSc there in a biology/maths discipline.

Given league tables seem to give different results so i think they are to be taken with a pinch of salt

Each one has a different methodology so can different results. Guardian has more weighting towards ‘satisfaction’ for example. If you don’t agree with their methodology then, yes, take them with a pinch of salt.

I think maths may be one of the outlier courses where there is some discernible pecking list between courses. As noted above that doesnt mean a higher placed course would work out better - lots of people have had a rough time at Warwick, Nottingham etc on the maths degrees.

Tbh if she's goi g to be doing maths then she'll be fine pretty much wherever she selects! Particularly with those predicted grades.
Your DD could be mine 6 years ago - same predictions (ended up with 4 A stars), and same school background. Didn't get into Oxford (school didn't help with MAT or interview prep but actually prob a blessing she didn't get in because she had time to indulge other passions at uni as a result)). Went to Durham. Can't remember where else she applied to tbh.
I think your DD ought to look at where she'd like to be and maybe if some of the courses have niche little tweaks like a year abroad or a year in industry.
DD did a masters after her degree in an area where she has been able to apply her maths and got a job with ease. Employers love mathematicians

@Neolara
I’ve just seen your thread.

I would ignore the people who say they didn’t like Oxford. You have to weigh up what suits DD. What is she looking for? Oxford is, of course, a great place to learn.

I’ve come on to say she shouldn’t discount Warwick. It’s often seen as the course just behind Oxbridge and is very prestigious. If she likes York as a campus uni, I really don’t think one person should put her off Warwick. I know a couple of young mathematicians from there and they really liked it. Of course it’s tough! Oxford will be too. However I do know it has a broad range of options and some are allied to business which can be brilliant for a future career. I think a similar ethos can be found at Bath. That’s also campus and a very good university.

Maths is a “powerhouse” in some universities. These are the ones that pre test as well as wanting A levels so whatever the league tables say, these are the genuine top universities.

If she doesn’t go to one of them, I’m not sure York is worse than Exeter or worse than Manchester etc. I doubt employers will mind. However I would put down Warwick and maybe one more high ranking one and then go for what she likes. However she really needs to look at the courses and future opportunities and not just follow as I’ve from one person who didn’t like Warwick. Thousands and thousands of students do!

My first time on this thread and as has happened before I find myself, speaking as a former RG STEM School Admissions Tutor and lecturer, echoing @TizerorFizz.

Your DD is an excellent candidate anywhere and honouring her positive instincts is a worthy consideration. York is a fine choice. But York is not Warwick (also a campus) or Imperial and she won’t find the same intellectual quality of peers or the same research power in the staff.

I understand a preference to keep away from London. I will assume here the same applies to other large cities. But it isn’t worthy of your DD’s intellect to dismiss Warwick based on one or two anecdotes. Many love it. (I have no connection.) I would add Edinburgh and Bristol as smaller cities with Schools of Maths that have stronger research power and a high ranking in the student orientated Guardian League Table, and echo the positive comments about Bath although the contribution of research power to the environment is not as high.

It can certainly matter in many circumstances. DD2 has applied to LSE knowing that a degree from there will open certain doors for her that might not be open to other graduates.