3 or 4 A-levels?

[Amboseli]

DS's school make them all do 4 A-levels in year 12. But they can then drop one in year 13.

DS is capable of 4 A-levels but is it worth it? If he drops one he will need to do Gold D of E instead which I feel would be better use of his time, not just for university applications.

He's going into year 11 so doing GCSEs next year but his school have given a talk on A-levels and want them to start thinking about them now.

He wants to do computer science at university and will be doing maths, further maths and physics and is likely to choose economics as the 4th A level.

Yes you get a separate grade in Further Maths and it is counted as an A level.

Some universities state that for certain courses they won't accept FM as a 3rd A level, but they will as a 4th, others will accept it as a 3rd A level.

Some university courses accept it as a third a level some only accept it as a fourth. It’s potentially risky. Tbh if he’s set on computer science then he can narrow down his five choices now and simply check their requirements.

I always think FM is a weird anomaly. It must be harder than any other A level but loads of people seem to think it's not a proper A level in its own right.

I suppose if you're good enough at maths to do it, then it seems easy....but considering how many people struggle to make the step up to a level maths from GCSE, it seems unfair that it's considered a soft option.

Oxford state that they expect maths applicants to have taken Further Maths if available and there is no merit to taking a 4th A level, they would accept Maths, Further Maths & Physics (along with sitting the MAT)

Cambridge state that competitive applicants for STEM courses often have Further Maths as a 4th A level.

There is one university I have seen that stated FM was only acceptable as a 4th not a 3rd A level but off the top of my head I can't remember which.

Careful with some of the info on here (eg mrs Elijanicholson) as it’s not true

FM now definitely IS a full A level with full ucas points.

My DS just did a-levels, maths, further maths and physics and has been accepted at a very good Uni to do engineering. No Duke of Edinburgh either. No EPQ.

In order not to dither favour private applicants over state school applicants, Unis (including Oxford and Cambridge) base offers on 3 a levels.

You can still do 4 (or more) if you like

But getting AAA is better than AAAB for example. So something to think about

Have a look at university requirements for Unis and courses your DS is interested in

That’s what we did.

MN gave me advice that was out of date, things are changing all the time in education it seems

@MarleneDietrichsSmile thank you, yes we definitely need to look at the specific requirements of the courses he's going to be applying for.

He hasn't even done his GCSEs yet!

I'm also going to encourage him to apply for deferred entry and take a gap year.

FM now definitely IS a full A level with full ucas points.

Yes it definitely is. It just isn't considered a separate subject when applying for medicine if only only two other A levels are taken, one of them being maths, as they are too similar. For example you can't apply for medicine with maths, FM and chemistry, but you can with maths, FM, chemistry and biology.

With those a-level choices I would definitely start with 4 and then drop one after a year if he can’t cope. Economics will give him a more rounded education alongside the maths and physics. And if he ends up struggling with further maths (as some people do), he has the flexibility to drop that and keep studying economics.

If your interests really run in that direction, Maths/Further Maths/Physics doesn't narrow you down that much - maths, physics, computer science and at least some engineering courses are all open to you. If a student takes those because they are good at them and think it will be "easier" - they maybe need to make sure they've thought a bit about what they want to do next.

A lot of students who do those three subjects will be more easily able to handle the workload for a 4th due to the overlaps. Hence some schools only routinely allowing 4 if one is FM. For some career paths an extra subject can be useful; for some students it can help give them a bit of variety. As mentioned already, medicine and vet science want students to do at least two A levels that are not maths, because they need a greater breadth of knowledge at the outset.

Someone still a year off 6th form is in a great position if they know what they want to do already. My DS is about to start 6th form, this summer's job has been discussing all the courses he might like to read about so he can start narrowing down his ideas ... (Maths/FM/Physics and Music, all related courses perfectly plausible options at present ...)

Good luck to your son, OP!

Some degree programmes at the School are highly mathematical in content and therefore Mathematics A-level or equivalent is a requirement. A number of programmes also require a qualification in Further Mathematics (where available), or consider one helpful. However, the combination of Mathematics, Further Mathematics plus one other subject is considered insufficiently broad for many of our programmes. Please refer to the degree programme pages and/or the table below for details on Further Mathematics and its acceptability for each programme.

From the LSE admissions page

Maybe it was LSE I was thinking of.

@GlacindaTheTroll

For Cambridge, the admissions exam is the CSAT on day on interview (as well as maths aptitude in advance)

The new spec Computer Science A level is worth having but not essential, and maths is required and in practice virtually everyone had FM.

If you apply to Imperial, again virtually everyone has maths and FM, and you also need to do STEP 2 (extra maths exam sat at same time as A levels)

Sorry this is out of date. As previous posters have said Cambridge uses the TMUA to aid their decision of whether to interview or not for Computer science and only 5 colleges still use the CSAT on the day they interview.

@Amboseli sorry if I missed it, but if he's definitely set on CompSci why is he not doing this at Alevel instead of Economics?

I know it's not a necessary Alevel to study the degree as some schools don't do it (maybe yours?) but maths/FM/physics/compsci are classic Alevels for the subject and complement each other meaning the workload is more manageable that other combinations.

my advice would be to do the easiest ones to get on the university course. Once he has a degree no one will look at those a-levels. Further maths is hard, if he has to do maths plus a science plus something else, that something else, for me that something else would be economics and bin the 4th a-level to concentrate on them. I work at a university, were for medicine everyone who gets the predicted grades in the right subjects gets an interview. The personal statements aren't even read. I doubt that is the case for others, and the course I am close to is not computer science.

Sorry this is out of date. As previous posters have said Cambridge uses the TMUA to aid their decision of whether to interview or not for Computer science and only 5 colleges still use the CSAT on the day they interview

Fair enough - it was a couple of years ago when in general use. And the college I know best (reputation, geeky/nerdy ) uses it

he's definitely set on CompSci why is he not doing this at Alevel instead of Economics?

You don't need CompSci Alevel - the new spec A level is however highly desirable. But there has been a shortage of teachers sufficiently qualified/experienced to teach it (is that generally remedied now?) so it might not be the best choice in a school,that is still developing its department.

@DoctorDonna20 his school don't offer comp sci unfortunately otherwise he would definitely have done it.

@anth85 for him the easiest subjects are maths and physics. If he can't cope with FM then I imagine he'd struggle with a comp sci degree so it's important that he does it imo. He also has to do a couple of maths tests as part of the application for imperial and from my understanding these are based on FM.

If 4 A-levels is too much he can drop economics and even though maths FM and physics are a very narrow subject range, they are fundamental to a comp sci degree and are all he'll actually need.

But we'll see what his school says next term.

@HasaDigaEebowai thanks for this, he won't be applying to LSE but it shows we need to check entry requirements very carefully for whichever degrees and unis he's applying to.

There are quite a number of students at his school who apply to American universities and that's also something we are going to look into.

With US universities he might need some tutoring. He’d need to sit SATs and they test maths and English (but obviously far better to have carried on with maths and try to fudge the English than the other way around - sitting the SATs having not touched maths for two years is likely to be extremely challenging).

Having said that if he’s genuinely unlikely to switch from computer science then there are plenty of universities in the uk that will accept him with maths FM and physics. In fact if he definitely isn’t going to change his mind you’d struggle to find one that wouldn’t accept that combination for computer science.

@HasaDigaEebowai thanks. We're going to look into US options but I don't think we'll go for it, it's more likely to be postgraduate level.

There is absolutely no possibility of him changing his mind about computer science! It's been obvious he will be working in IT since he was very young!

I would say three A levels every time and I don't know why some schools insist that you start with four - you can make much better use of the time with other qualifications, such as lifeguard course or enrichment activities or making time for hobbies. You only need three A levels to get into university, so use the time for other stuff that makes life fun.

However, if it's maths and further maths you may need to do four. There was a girl at my school who did Maths, FM and economics, got all As but it sounds like that would be considered too narrow now.

@igelkott2021 I think the reasoning is that they might end up not liking one of them, so can drop and still have 3.

I agree the extra time if doing only 3 could be used for other constructive activities but the reality is it will probably be spent on the PlayStation.

If the courses DS will be applying for allow maths, FM and physics as his 3 acceptable A levels I might speak to the school and see if he can just do these 3 from the start.

Is there anything wrong with playing on the playstation? Dd who recently graduated from an intense course with a lot of contact hours was finding she was getting very stressed. All her spare time was spent doing so called constructive activities. She took up gaming and has been so much better mentally. She uses that time to decompress.

@Comefromaway

Is there anything wrong with playing on the playstation? Dd who recently graduated from an intense course with a lot of contact hours was finding she was getting very stressed. All her spare time was spent doing so called constructive activities. She took up gaming and has been so much better mentally. She uses that time to decompress.

Dd18 plays Minecraft with her sister and crochets (2 a stars and an A). Definitely nothing wrong with a bit of ps4!

There's nothing wrong with the PlayStation per se, the issue for me is the amount of time spent on it.