3 or 4 A-levels?

[Amboseli]

DS's school make them all do 4 A-levels in year 12. But they can then drop one in year 13.

DS is capable of 4 A-levels but is it worth it? If he drops one he will need to do Gold D of E instead which I feel would be better use of his time, not just for university applications.

He's going into year 11 so doing GCSEs next year but his school have given a talk on A-levels and want them to start thinking about them now.

He wants to do computer science at university and will be doing maths, further maths and physics and is likely to choose economics as the 4th A level.

@HasaDigaEebowai

My dc are at an academically selective independent which is often near top in league tables. They are only allowed to do four if one is further maths (so if you don’t do maths you can only do three A Levels), you can’t do maths unless you have an 8/9 at gcse, they are not allowed to pick further maths if they only do 3 A levels. They all do EPQ. They’re told gold DofE is not going to benefit their ucas application in the slightest (but that it is good fun and gets them outside).

Exactly the same here!

Epq has definitely been the most useful here

Dds course wanted AAA and offered ABB with an A in the Epq.

Dd1 also got a reduced offer with A in EPQ

You can also usually do FM AS level in 1 year, which is valued on UCAS applications, but which allows you to concentrate on the other three in the final year.

Ds is going to Durham to study computer science for degree. The top universities expect you to have further maths and maths for computer science not computer science A level.

Ds did do computer science for GCSE (grade 9) and for A level (A*) and says there are components of computer science that are covered in further maths ie matrices that are not covered in maths.

Universities cannot ask for further maths as not all sixth forms offer it. However, it puts the applicant at a massive disadvantage if they don't have it. Most top universities are oversubscribed so they can choose, just because their entry is AAA does not mean they offer to those predicted AAA. They have possibly been predicted A A A* but maybe achieve AAA on the day and are accepted in.

For computer science at Cambridge you have to sit the CTMUA which is a maths entrance exam (TMUA) but Cambridge will fork the cost of the exam for you. Therefore those sitting the entrance exam have usually covered the whole of the A level maths syllabus in year 12 which Ds did.

Specifically for computer science 4 A levels one of which is further maths is desirable. Ds says the workload was fine doing those 4 A levels, he did maths which overlaps with physics (he says it is just applied maths) plus further maths in year 13 (whole 2 years in short time) and computer science. He still had one free period a day and achieved 4 x A*s.

@MrsElijahMikaelson1 thank you, I will look at the uni websites. Could you please expand on what you mean you say doing FM is narrowing the field? Would it limit his uni choices?

Mainly that if his 3 A levels are maths further maths and physics there’s no breadth so depending on what he wanted to do it might be limiting-and a little boring!

@HasaDigaEebowai
@Bryonyshcmyony

DS is also at a highly ranked independent who have a very good uni entrance dept so I am sure they will be able to advise on the best A levels for his chosen uni. They do seem to get a high percentage into Oxbridge every year. There does also seem to be the increasing issue that being at a private school seems to be becoming a disadvantage which is very unfair on the children who didn't themselves make the choice to go to private over state.

@Bryonyshcmyony could I ask out of interest what topic your DS did for his EPQ?

@OnTheBenchOfDoom Durham is one of unis we're considering.

I'm keen for him to choose a degree that includes time working in industry, there seem to be a couple that offer this.

I do know a number of fairly recent graduates who didn't go to top ranking unis but nevertheless got excellent very well paid jobs after doing their degrees which I think is important to bear in mind, as I do worry about the pressure on kids to achieve these days. The whole process reminds of the 11+ stress which I'd rather forget!

I really appreciate everyone's advice so thank you!

For Cambridge, the admissions exam is the CSAT on day on interview (as well as maths aptitude in advance)

The new spec Computer Science A level is worth having but not essential, and maths is required and in practice virtually everyone had FM.

If you apply to Imperial, again virtually everyone has maths and FM, and you also need to do STEP 2 (extra maths exam sat at same time as A levels)

Please ignore any advice over "points" requirement for uni entries. All of the unis that your DS will be targeting based on the info you have provided will be grades based offers.

Please ignore any advice over "points" requirement for uni entries. All of the unis that your DS will be targeting based on the info you have provided will be grades based offers.

^that x 100

[quote Amboseli]@HasaDigaEebowai thanks. I was really thinking of DofE to get DS outdoors and doing something constructive with his time instead of playstation, if he did 3 A-levels.

@MrsElijahMikaelson1 thank you, I will look at the uni websites. Could you please expand on what you mean you say doing FM is narrowing the field? Would it limit his uni choices?[/quote]
If you so Further Maths as one of only 3 levels you are narrowing your choices as you are only studying 2 subjects which may limit degree choices.

If you are doing Further Maths as a 4th A level then you are studying 3 subjects at A level which can help keep options open.

I would say there is no merit in doing 4 A levels, better to concentrate on getting the best grades in 3 UNLESS the 4th A Level is Further Maths.

With regards to EPQs, they are helpful if you are not applying to a programme with a very competitive entry, but if you are, an EPQ won’t help you at all as there is no benefit for universities to lower entry requirements due to EPQs that may not even be related to the subject.

To put it on a way, if the uni knows they will get enough students with the top grades for that programme anyway, why would you reduce the offer and admit a candidate with lower grades just because they did an EPQ which may be in a totally unrelated subject?

@GrandmasCat

With regards to EPQs, they are helpful if you are not applying to a programme with a very competitive entry, but if you are, an EPQ won’t help you at all as there is no benefit for universities to lower entry requirements due to EPQs that may not even be related to the subject.

To put it on a way, if the uni knows they will get enough students with the top grades for that programme anyway, why would you reduce the offer and admit a candidate with lower grades just because they did an EPQ which may be in a totally unrelated subject?

Dd got a lower offer from Durham due to her epq

Just another note, universities do not ignore further maths results. If your kid is doing 4 a levels has been made an offer that includes 2 essential subjects, the university will consider the grades on the 2 essential subjects first, then the higher grade of the other 2 a levels and ignore the lower grade, unless the low grades fall below the floor the university would accept.

For example if your offer is conditional to achieving AAB, you may still get rejected if you get A*BC.

If your pro

@Bryonyshcmyony. It doesn’t matter how good the university is, as even at top universities there are courses that are a bit of struggle to fill, not because the course is bad but because it may be a subject that may not be attracting much attention at the time.

[quote GrandmasCat]@Bryonyshcmyony. It doesn’t matter how good the university is, as even at top universities there are courses that are a bit of struggle to fill, not because the course is bad but because it may be a subject that may not be attracting much attention at the time.[/quote]
Yes I agree although many unis state clealry they will drop grades with an A in epq
Not medicine or vet med!

Yes, there are some unis that do offer reduction for all subjects but I have only seen it happening when the university is struggling to recruit as much students as they want.

Well Durham had 9 applications for every space for dds course so..

Yes but just remember that if those 9 applications some will choose other universities as their firm and insurance choice.

… and some won’t get the grades. It does happen, so relish the satisfaction of having a kid in Durham, I’m sure she got a place in there for more impressive reasons than completing an EPQ

@GrandmasCat I think that’s a little short sighted and not really up to date information. Doing an EPQ shows many things useful for universities in picking students-the ability to do independent study being one of them-and most students will do their EPQ related to what they want to study at university so it also shows interest and that extra effort going in.

There are lots of highly rated universities who state that they do offer a standard reduced A level grades offer if an applicant has a good EPQ result. Equally there are others who do not.

Some unversities will also make offers based on all 4 A levels which are no different to the offer based on 3 so if an applicant drops a grade they can lose their place

Eg Applicant A taking 3 A Levels might be given an offer of AAA for 3 A levels and applicant B might be given an offer of AAAA, even if applicant B gets AAAB then they may lose their place.

Every university does things slightly differently. The trick is to look up the specific institutions and courses he may be interested in and see what they say.

Mumsnet does not like stars

Applicant A offer should read 3 A star

Any reason he can’t do all 4 and the DofE as well? If he is a natural at maths (which I assume he is given his choices) then the Maths FM and Physics are not going to be very time consuming, and he should have time for Economics and DofE as well.

Or do you think he won’t do the DofE unless he’s made to by school?

@minipie I originally thought if he only did 3 A-levels I didn't want him wasting time on the PlayStation so DofE would keep him constructively busy. Whereas if he did 4 he wouldn't have time for the DofE.

But, because of his actual subject choices which are maths, FM, physics and economics it seems he might have time for the DofE too.

Although if it's not really going to help his uni application he'll probably be better doing an EPQ instead especially if he chooses to do it on something related to the uni course he wants to do.

He will be applying for computer science degrees.

They go back to school next week so will talk it through with his tutor.

@Comefromaway I hear what you're saying about narrowing choices if only doing maths, FM, and physics. But DS is 100% sure he wants to do computer science at uni, it's what he's always wanted to do. These are the subjects required by his courses so would it really matter if he didn't do a 4th A-level/3rd subject?

I personally think he should do another subject but if he didn't I don't think it would affect his uni application?

I must admit I am still slightly unclear as to whether you get a separate grade in FM and that it definitely counts as a 3rd A-level...