Shockingly high A level entry requirements

[AffronttoPronouns]

DD just finished her GCSE year 11, will be doing 4 A levels (FM, Maths, Physics, Chemistry) at 6th form with the view to going on to doing STEM related degree at a RG university.

So we started looking into university courses and were shocked at the entry requirements - mostly A*s and As are required for UCL, Imperial for example. DD is finding it very daunting, overwhelming and can't get her head round how she will achieve, what seems at the current time, these impossible grades. I was also shocked as I did engineering myself many years ago, and offers then were BBBs and BBC. I also remember thinking at lower 6th, A levels seem extremely difficult, but somehow I grew into it and managed to attain AAB grades at the end of it.

I have tried to assure DD not to panic, that she needs to focus on working hard and doing her best, don't be afraid to ask teachers for help during her A levels, and that she will rise to the challenge and grow into it.

Any words of wisdom or anyone with similar experiences to share would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

Grade inflation is definitely a thing. I got BBC back in the 80s and these were considered very respectable grades back in the day.

UCL and Imperial are going to be at the top of grade requirements but there's lots of other great unis that will have lower requirements- don't let GreyhoundG1 put her off before she's even started the application process.

Also to confirm that there is a lot of overlap in maths, FM and physics.

Thanks @Sheerheight I agree, the maths , physics and chemistry should reinforce each other, I think m more daunted by it then her tbh. She s on top performers at the school. Willbecleaer by the end of lower 6th hopefully, fingers crossed.

Sorry for typos....bloody phone.

Shocking?! I wohkd expect no less from UCL!!

Do you think you can get into a university like that with Bs and Cs or lower?

Surely imperial is absolutely creme de la creme fir stem degrees though? I would assume it would be the absolute stretch goal. Almost any other uni will be easier to get into.

Of course top unis want impossibly high grades...that's why they are top unis. It was the same when I was leaving school and that was over 15 yrs ago now.

Nope. Not the same 30 years ago. Obviously thing s have exchanges since.

As others have said these uni’s aren’t necessarily the bees knees. There is no point killing yourself through stress and exhaustion at an RH uni when your just as likely to end Up in the same jobs as grads from other unis - as long as you apply yourself obv.

Not sure how requiring top grades for 'op universities is shocking?
Especially for very academic subjects like the ones your daughter is interested in. If she finds A-levels difficult she will struggle at uni
Also bear in mind that you're competing with students from around the world also applying to UK unis.

Having said that RG unis are a self styled brand name. There are plenty of universities not in them that are very good. As long as she manages to get a mix of A's and B's she should be able to get into one of these.

Oxford, Cambridge, UCL and Imperial are basically the top places to go (maybe Manchester on there too). People with seriously good grades would apply to these. They’re not “Russell Group”, they’re the top unis in the country.

Vs the “Russell Group” in general—a lot of units there that are not particularly prestigious or hard to get into. Generally if a uni advertises itself by saying Russell Group, it means not as strong a reputation—wanting to be dragged up by the reputation of UCL etc.

By the time she’s submitting applications she will know where she is aiming and what is realistic, if that’s all prestigious, some prestigious and some safe, general Russell Group or Russell Group and a few lower.

Grade inflation, pure and simple. What used to be ABB is now A*AA. Try to encourage her, she‘ll get a place at a good uni - UCL and Imperial are not the only good ones out there.

Grade inflation. Don't know what the situation is these days but a few years back AAA (or better) was being achieved by 12% of the cohort. Not the top 12% of exam-entrants got A grade; 12% of all students got A in all three exams.

If it helps, I run graduate assessment centre for a sought after U.K. employer (accounting tax consulting). We blind assess the candidates. We don’t know their background at all. Not even subject. It’s to minimise unconscious bias. This seems to be industry standard now.

The best candidates shine and we’ve had excellent success in graduate performance and progression/ retention since adopting this approach. Its been really noticeable. We used to employ many from Oxbridge but not so many now. It’s win win for everyone. We’re looking for softer skills which are way more important than the uni attended.

Technical knowledge is only really acquired in the job in these sectors. We’re looking for candidates with potential and the RG university candidates don’t always float to the top.

Clearly it will be different for engineering/ pure science careers which do rely on what has been taught at uni.

Anyway the world of graduate recruitment has drastically changed. I will be making sure my child has good critical thinking skills, good interpersonal skills, is a good listener and follows the 7 habits. These are the things that matter to employers.

We blind assess the candidates. We don’t know their background at all. Not even subject. It’s to minimise unconscious bias. This seems to be industry standard now.
Presumably you don't assess everyone who applies, there must be some sort of elimination process before you get there. What's your first-sift?

my son is at one of these universities- at the UCL open day, we spoke to the admissions lady and she said rather get 3 excellent A levels with potentially A* than 4 with lower grades so he dropped one and did Maths, Further Maths and Physics and got in fine. I think have a long think about whether she can cope with 4 - a lot of people do and are fine but he was much happier doing 3. You just need to check the ones she wants to go to are ok with the A levels she picks.

@senua yes, they are sifted... the first stage is online assessment and if they are successful, they get to meet humans!

Just to add, when we do meet them, we know nothing about them except their first name. So we can’t pre judge them. It’s all down to their performance on the day. It’s always a surprise to find out what subject they studied and the university.

There are definitely a lot more blind recruiters out there now, which means there are chances to get a good career that way regardless of uni. However the majority of opportunities are still more traditional, and if you’re applying for postgrads it’s all more traditional too.

@ToodlePipshh

If it helps, I run graduate assessment centre for a sought after U.K. employer (accounting tax consulting). We blind assess the candidates. We don’t know their background at all. Not even subject. It’s to minimise unconscious bias. This seems to be industry standard now.

The best candidates shine and we’ve had excellent success in graduate performance and progression/ retention since adopting this approach. Its been really noticeable. We used to employ many from Oxbridge but not so many now. It’s win win for everyone. We’re looking for softer skills which are way more important than the uni attended.

Technical knowledge is only really acquired in the job in these sectors. We’re looking for candidates with potential and the RG university candidates don’t always float to the top.

Clearly it will be different for engineering/ pure science careers which do rely on what has been taught at uni.

Anyway the world of graduate recruitment has drastically changed. I will be making sure my child has good critical thinking skills, good interpersonal skills, is a good listener and follows the 7 habits. These are the things that matter to employers.

I presume you work for the Big4? With all due respect tax consulting isn't a competitive position. Perhaps more competitive than audit (which is a body count), but certainly very different compared to management consulting/corporate finance in the same organisation where university name makes a huge difference (alongside experience).

It's not difficult to get 'a' graduate job in the UK. It is difficult to get a graduate job in specific sectors. Depending on what OP's daughter is aiming for she'd do well to get into a decent university. Again, not necessarily self-styled Russell Group but a university with a decent reputation for academic subjects.

@ToodlePipshh

Perhaps you recruit blind but that isn't the case with many if not most graduate recruiters. There's many subtle ways of screening too. Unfortunately in many areas it's still down to who you know to get work experience

@CastawayQueen

I was just offering a different perspective from an employer’s POV. The OP can take it or leave it. Yes we offer corporate finance and management consulting. It’s the same process. The service I work in is consulting, but not tax- I can’t say of what because it’s outing, but it’s very competitive/ desirable. In my line, the calibre of grads is higher due to blind recruitment and a skills/ attitude based interview process (which is pretty tough).

We’re looking for diverse candidates who can bring different ways of thinking and ideas to the table. Things have changed with the EDI agenda. It’s a good thing. I’ve been in the sector coming up to 20 years and the pace of change is quite something— it’s a great thing to see. Our competitors recruit the same way now, we only started 2 years ago so it’s fairly new.

This timely article explains quite well why companies are adopting this approach as it pays dividends. Of course, it’s very disruptive to the independent school to Oxbridge/ RG pathway, but employers don’t want to employ academic clones. Just because you excel academically doesn’t mean you come up with independent thought and creative thinking. Employers are seeking diversity because it’s great for business.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-57698821

@motogogo maybe now, but give it a few years and I think that will change. The large companies like mine are leading the way and others will follow.

Obviously there will still be a need for technical roles with specific academic qualifications. But for many entry level professional jobs I think it will change because employers will need to be diverse in order to compete. Diversity is good for business- it’s not a tick box exercise.

@motogogo just to add, we specifically don’t allow nepotistic internships. Ours are competitive and the salary is quite high, which makes it accessible to people from lower socioeconomic background who need to rent. We don’t ask about previous work experience- we ask about life experience and attitude/ skills. I know a lot of unpaid internships still exist, but these are being challenged across many industries.

Times are changing. Cambridge and Oxford have set quotas for state schools, meaning independents miss out. Blind graduate recruitment is just another way to help break down barriers to entry and find the best candidates with the most potential.

Is she at a big standard comp or a posh grammar/ private. I would think being at a bog standardcomp would increase chances of getting into a top uni.
There was discussion about education on Radio4 and it seems employers want problem solvers - I'm not sure how you would give evidence of a flair for that.