MFL and native speakers

[IrmaFayLear]

Dd is considering A Level French. Should she?

Because, as I suspected, from the Ofqual website:

we know from anecdotal evidence that there are concerns about the potential impact of native speakers on A level MFL results. In particular, there are concerns that the number of native speakers is increasing and that, as a result, students for whom the MFL is a second language are being disadvantaged.

There were other details about how half of those gaining A* were native speakers, and they were heavily impacting the grade boundaries. This is serious stuff for dd, who is quite ambitious.

Yes I guess you could look at it that way.

@Simonjt
You do know the exams are somewhat different! MFL exams here are designed for DC learning from scratch, but not from birth. With a bit of work, they are easy.

I did a level MFL in a language I am bilingual in.
What I would say is that I had never written it or learnt it formally and the course was still tough. The literature was the hardest.
I got an A though (too old for A*).

@BackT
Yes, but the speaking and listening was easy! So everyone else who learns from age 11 has it tougher! They don’t have the advantage of speaking all their lives.

This is why I’ve steered DS from A level German. All the other kids who want to do it at his school are half German, or in one case actually fully German 🤔I just don’t see how it’s possible to overcome that level of advantage.

@Wannakisstheteacher
The only way is to be brilliant yourself! Otherwise is very demoralizing. Shame he didn’t progress his German because universities are desperate for students to study German.

@Wannakisstheteacher totally understand why he wouldn't. I think globalisation & languages will be a huge thing in the future. My dc are in school with lots of multilingual kids & many monolingual like themselves.
For instance her friend of Russian heritage speaks fluent Russian, Ukrainian, German (as her grandparents moved to Germany after the fall of communism) & a small bit of Romanian as her aunt, uncle &, cousins live in Romania. Add the cultural capital on top of that. Pre the war there was many trips home to Russia. But the family are improvising. Meet family in Germany & are going to Romania skiing at half term.

A French or Spanish degree is really only partially about the language, and more about the culture of the country. A 'Hispanic studies' degree may have 10 modules comprised of:

Spanish history
Portguese history
Carribean and portugese literature
The Spanish civil war
Spanish civil war literature
Film in post-war spain
Spanish Language
Basque Language
Galician Language
Catalan Language
Spanish female literature

and so on..

Only 10% is the actual language, and most of this is about being able to express or translate complex concepts or issues in a language. Not something that being able to chat to your Spanish granny once a year necessarily helps with.

I had to talk about chemical castration and post war poetry in my language a-levels so not really the vocabulary you get from the kitchen table.

@thisplaceisweird The fact is, dedicated parents do far more than talk about sausages and sauerkraut! They do ensure Dc read poetry and have many educational discussions to widen vocabulary. Castration would be mega hard for anyone and unusual I would have thought.

I note DDs joint MFL degree had 40/120 credits as compulsory language modules. So 10% is lightweight. That’s the difference between “studies” and more academic MFL.

Ds did French A level and the social history/political topics they explored really put him off - he just didn't have the interest/ability to discuss them in English never mind French, it was all too much, unexpected and it was likely he was too immature in his interests - his Uni course covers similar topics but now at 19 he's engaged and wanting to learn about political ideas and how society is structured.
The mix at 16/17 just didn't work for him and he's horrified now by how little French he remembers - I'm sure he'd pick it up quickly if he ever moved to France but otherwise I'm not sure he sees a big value in it.

This was at Oxford... That’s the difference between “studies” and more academic MFL 'academic MFL' could be anything. The degree is called Hispanic Studies or Spanish and Latin American studies (BA).

What do you think 'Academic MFL' is?

Perhaps 10% is incorrect and it was a 20 credit spanish lang module out of 120 credits, I don't remember exactly but my point was it's a real minority out of the whole course.

But even if it’s 20% you must pass it. Joint honours is higher so even more skewed to native speakers doing well.

Also when a mfl is given the studies title, most people know it’s more studies topics and less language. Do culture and literature are a higher proportion. However you cannot access the literature if you are poor at the language. A lifetime of learning the language is a huge advantage.

This is from the Oxford MFL brochure. I cannot see Hispanic studies. I can also see that language is 50% of finals.

Interesting thread. I have a DC planning to take German A level, so it's a bit shocking that 17% of people taking it are native speakers.

I think it was better in my day when the A Level was very literature based. You might say that the speaking is more relevant, and of course it is, but focusing on the written word levels the playing field somewhat.

Also when I were a lass there were no native speakers in my classes, and I did three MFL. Now it’s so different and makes it in many cases impossible to compete.

Fof university entrance it’s impossible to tell if s kid’s name is, say, Sarah Smith. You wouldn’t know if her mum’s name was Merkel or Macron. That being said, ds’s MFL mates at Oxbridge had no family connections. One brilliant girl had never even been abroad.