GCSE '18s (20) - half term beckons!

[mmmz]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/further_education/3355907-gcse-18s-19-new-beginnings

I once bought DD a sequined leotard on eBay. Does that count? I made her have gymnastics lessons for 3 years so that she would never face the humiliation I had of being unable to do a backward roll.

Back to an earlier topic, there is a whole world of degree courses out there beyond the world of Oxbridge, which produce intelligent, well-adjusted employable graduates. A gap year merely puts you up against the following year's bright young things. I've had a grad intake of around 60 students this year and I think only 1 or 2 are Oxbridge. They usually do no better or worse with their maths/physics/history/PPE degree in their professional student than the ones taken on my the Big 4 from any other uni (non-RG included).

Exams not student.

It just strikes me that the point of GCSEs was to get into sixth form and the point of A levels is to get onto the next stage.

However, the school's opinion about likely grades at GCSE became completely obsolete on results day. If the school predicted GCSE grades conservatively, it wouldn't stop you getting a conditional offer and being able to take it up if you get the grades.

In contrast, if the sixth form predicts low for A levels, then there is no way that you'll get conditional offers from the more aspirational universities.
So, the 6th form teachers view can make a material difference to outcomes.

PS this is just theoretical. I'm not fretting about DS. His school are predicting somewhere between A and A* for him.

But "aspirational" universities are only "aspirational" if you want to go to them. I had no intention of applying to Exeter (too close to home) Bristol, Oxford or Cambridge. I picked a degree course based on where I thought I would fit in, having experienced state & public schools, with people I liked. I also had to go somewhere where I could afford to live and get to from Cornwall. There are so many more factors in your choice of university than a place in a league table.

Good point sticker. And fair point whistl too but most schools will want their students to get the best offers - so it’s actually a bigger problem of schools predicting too high and students not meeting offers

Also, your postcode, FSM status and whether you will be the first generation to go to university will have an impact on the offers you receive. The top universities are going to be seriously in the poop if they don't broaden out their demographics over the next couple of years. They already do make lower offers to some students and that is bound to continue. I sincerely hope Sost doesn't mind me saying this as it is meant very kindly, but someone like her DGD, who has drive, brains and ticks boxes will hopefully have lower offers made to her from whichever universities she sets her heart on, than someone from a top public school who naturally ticks a lot of other boxes and has experienced support to help put the right thing on a form.

(That is obviously not meant as a dig at anyone fortunate enough to have those advantages).

Actually sticker I 100% agree with you. There was a poster whilst the GCSEs were underway talking about a kid who had managed to get decent results despite living in a sink hole estate and having drug addict parents.
I said that type of achievement was more impressive than my DD who has had a life full of privilege and opportunity (comparatively). Their drive, determination and intelligence to overcome adversities is awe inspiring.

I was shot down in flames when I said it before but I am going to say it again. Contextual offers are fair. Even an IQ test is probably fairer than GCSEs.

It's a weird system we seem to have in the UK 🤨

I agree. I don’t think anyone can seriously argue against contextual offers.

Limit here you go... rhinestones not sequins. . Although they were sequins in my day...

Wow Jufus - very steam punk!

Your patience is phenomanol.

Jufus that is amazing!
I am totally in favour of contextual offers. Universities are looking at potential. I'm also aware first-hand that students on Access courses, who often have had a very disrupted education, can get into Oxbridge. (I'm hoping for the third in a row for English this year!) The point is they often have a completely different academic profile to the conventional applicant, but they can definitely keep up once they get there and they contribute a great deal.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Harvard in lots of trouble because of the unintended discrimination that resulted from its contextual offers?

Something along the lines that moving the goal posts closer for the black students resulted in a large number of Asian students losing the place they would have otherwise got?

It's a good idea, in principle, but it is hard to put it into practice without robbing Peter to pay Paul. You can be sure that it won't be the boys currently at Eton, Winchester and Harrow who will not get a place as a result of a positive discrimination policy but some other, less privileged segment of society.

My DD was entitled to contextual offers as will DS but lets not be under any illusions it in no way makes up for the poor quality teaching and advice that they get and those that truly benefit are the outliers that would almost certainly achieve anyway. Until teaching becomes a respected profession who are properly paid then unfortunately things will be far from equal.........the amount of misinformation DS has been taught this early in the term is shocking and quite frankly receiving one reduced grade will go nowhere near making up for it.........sorry rant over

I think anything that can be done to help support students from less advantaged backgrounds get into university is a good thing, including contextual offers and outreach programmes and summer schools.

It sounds like the criteria used by Harvard was either flawed or had a different aim.Top universities and top courses here are under no obligation to offer a contextual place if they don't think the student has the potential to succeed. It may actually mean simply getting a standard offer despite spiky GCSE grades - but at least getting an offer - or an adjustment by one grade. They still have to meet the offer. It's not a quota system.

I was thinking......
Parents pay a lot of money and make lots of sacrifices to educate their children privately so we can expect them to do better academically than many of their state school peers. Small classes, 1-1 tuition, longer school hours and high expectations make a massive difference to results. As a result they will get more offers from top Unis.
If contextual offers are then made to the most disadvantaged in society (robbing Peter to pay Paul) it will actually squeeze out the middle section of society
Yet another social conundrum which I have no answer for!!!
I guess the positive is that we are all more aware of this inequality than in past years and there is a desire (from most) to address this.

To be honest the contextual offer discussion is just a diversion. The big problem is the underfunding of the state sector, which is where around 93% of the population is educated!
A few contextual offers will benefit individuals but they won't change much else unless other reforms are made.

Exactly Loose

Also at the moment plenty of people are getting into RG Uni's on missed grades anyway as numbers are down and Uni's want to fill their places, so a contextual offer can be pretty meaninless.

Agree Loose and BlueBelle that the problems run far deeper. This article about admissions at Cambridge demonstrates some of them I think. It’s quite old (from 2012) but I don’t expect things have changed that much.

www.theguardian.com/education/2012/jan/10/how-cambridge-admissions-really-work

By the way, I know these issues extend way beyond Oxbridge, but I haven’t seen a similar discussion of the admissions process anywhere else.

The state sector could undoubtedly do with more cash, but mainly the cash is needed to pay for more teachers.
I think the issue is that people don't want to be teachers because its known for long hours, a lack of respect and to be honest, dealing with kids isn't always fun, but their parents can be even worse.
How many other professions can you think of where you must join a trade union so that you have someone to help you fight the legal battle if and when the day comes that you are falsely accused of touching inappropriately (which is more or less all physical contact)? And anything you do can be taken out of context and splashed all all over the daily mail?

I'd want to be paid a lot of money to overcome that.

When I was young, until about 25, I always wanted to be a teacher. My mother was a teacher, as was my grandmother. In fact, about half the women and several of the men in my family were teachers (trained in the 1960s). Today, there isn't a single teacherin the whole extended family that was born after 1960. So, something has changed.

The reason i went off the idea was because I applied to teaching college after my degree and they wrote inviting me to interview, telling me to prepare by coming ready to speak about the politics of teaching. I wanted to teach maths, to open up a world for young minds! But the teaching college weren't interested in that. I didn't want to sit in a staffroom grumbling about funding cuts, or helicopter parents or the wrongs of austerity, so I changed direction and went into the City instead.

When my grandmother taught (in the 20s and 30s), teaching was a highly respected career. When my mother's generation taught (in the 60s, 70s and 80s), it lost a lot of the prestige and now the public take potshots at it right, left and centre. You'd have to pay me a lot of money to offset that!

Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Many become teaching assistants because although the pay is horrible, the difference doesn't make up for the pressures of teaching that comes from the government, parents, SLT and the behaviour and demands of some of the children themselves.

The state education system is in a mess, but I think it will take more than money to fix it.

If people with less favourable economic circumstances and fewer advantages get contextual offers (seems fair to me), how about students with spLD getting contextual offers...

That's some serious graft JufusMum, wow!

Limit in general those with splds have already been granted reasonable adjustments eg extra time, a scribe etc to level the playing field. A contextual offer would mean they were compensated twice.