Is your aspirational worth it if it’s really an Oxbridge insurance?

[eatinglesschocolate]

Basically...DD considering Durham. It would be her aspirational (predicted 3A’s aiming for IR). Anecdotally...does anyone know of students who are there NOT just because they didn’t get their Oxbridge offer?

Is one reason Durham wait until March/April to make offers, to try to eliminate people who have been made Oxbridge offers (on the basis that by then those students will have accepted O as firm, and another as insurance, so will show up as having withdrawn application - convoluted I know, and I don't even know if that's how the system works!).

If not, must be difficult to calculate the number of offers correctly - most (not all!) Oxbridge offerees won't put Durham as first choice so they have to make more offers to compensate, but without knowing how many there are. I realise this applies to other universities as well of course, but is the problem more accentuated for Durham? All speculation.

Edinburgh and St Andrews both took until the end of March to make offers to DS2 and they were unconditional as he already had his Highers so applied with grades in hand, didn't seem to make a difference. Dundee and Glasgow made him offers in January.

Edinburgh and St Andrews are both known for reading personal statements carefully whereas the others generally don't.

Is one reason Durham wait until March/April to make offers, to try to eliminate people who have been made Oxbridge offers (on the basis that by then those students will have accepted O as firm, and another as insurance, so will show up as having withdrawn application - convoluted I know, and I don't even know if that's how the system works!).

Yes, in order to select your firm reinsurance binges, you either have to have received responses from all your universities, or to have withdrawn from any which have not yet responded, if you already have offers from the ones you really want.

Or to have withdrawn in desperation from one which seems to want to drag proceedings out to the last permissible moment and you just want to get on with the process and with the rest of your life.

DD is going to Durham because she loved it. Did not apply for Oxbridge. Her room mate is the same - not an Oxbridge reject.

Also - she had her offer from Durham on 5 February... there was no delay.

Offer holder days are in early March - I think if they were not sending offers till March/April, that would be ridiculous? Most offers are made way before then... I'm not sure where this information has come from???

@janinlondon

Durham dragging its heels over offers is a recurrent theme on The Student Room. LSE ditto.

"Yes, in order to select your firm reinsurance binges..."

I sense that there may be an autocorrect in there! but I think you're saying that if people want to accept Oxbridge as soon as they get an offer in january they withdraw their applications from other places.

Which may help Durham, St A's and other possible 'second choices' manage their numbers if they wait until at least mid January - some of the cohort may fall out. (Not those who might turn Oxbridge down in favour of eg LSE, Imperial etc - they may still be waiting. )

"Also - she had her offer from Durham on 5 February... there was no delay."

When did your dd apply Jan? The thing is that some/?many of the universities seem to make offers very quickly, say within 2 - 4 weeks of getting the application. So if you've applied in October, February may seem like a delay if you've heard from the others. three months previously. Although pp here have identified other delayers as well. ...

Yes you are right thatdidntlast - she was an early applicant. The school had them all apply at the same time as the Oxford Cambridge deadline cohort (quite common in lots of London schools and it means the universities can't guess from our cohort who is Oxbridge and who is not). So that probably counts as an equivalent delay. Though I still think the offer holder overnight stays in early March would be silly if Durham is renowned for March/April offers.....I think perhaps also we dont hear about the standard offer times on many of the web chat sites - the anecdotal evidence is skewed because the people who post are those left waiting, so those who are in the last offer round?

Yes good point Jan, people may be more likely to comment if they are/were waiting - though interestingly I would think of February offers for an October application as quite late! (compared to some) Shows how perceptions can differ!

Also shows that the important thing is for the dc to be aware they may not get offers quickly, so no need to panic! Easy to say though, especially if it is the preferred choice!

Yes, in order to select your firm reinsurance binges..."

I sense that there may be an autocorrect in there! but I think you're saying that if people want to accept Oxbridge as soon as they get an offer in january they withdraw their applications from other places.

Haha, yes, sorry - I do try to proof read everything, but sometimes this phone's idiosyncrasies defeat me.

(Or, as the phone would apparently prefer, effect of).

firm and insurance choices. You can't select them with any decisions outstanding, but you can 'short circuit' the process by withdrawing your applications to universities in which you are no longer interested.

The big difference between Oxbridge and Durham, is that Oxbridge interview. The grades achieved by those who didn’t get through the interviews, or even get that far, are often no different to those going to Durham. That’s why it’s an insurance type of choice. It becomes a first choice, along with another whole raft of universities, because Oxbridge reject as many as 90% of prospective students on some courses. Therefore rejects are numerous. Not that it remotely matters though! It’s all in the past when they start elsewhere!

"The grades achieved by those who didn’t get through the interviews, or even get that far, are often no different to those going to Durham. "

Absolutely - and of those who didn't apply to Oxbridge in the first place! (for whatever reasons.) It raises an interesting question - since most of those interviewed will have passed the relevant 'AT' exam, the difference between place/non-place at Oxbridge comes down to (a) whether you apply; and (b) largely (not wholly) to interview performance. Perhaps I'm just stating the obvious there!

Not all courses at Oxbridge pre test. MFL doesn’t I believe. Also some courses take a much higher percentage of applicants than others do. You would be likely to put a top university or two on your list if you thought you might not get Oxbridge and few candidates believe themselves to be bankers!

The bigger problem is not applying in the first place and “staying local”. That is an unknown quantity but it no doubt keeps the other top end universities buoyant with very good students. Also less completion for Oxbridge. Not sure if that’s a good thing though.

My DS is at St Andrews, it was his first choice, as I suspect it is for most Scottish Applicants. I suspect Oxbridge applicants are few from Scottish State schools as our exam system does not match up easily with Oxbridge entrance requirements, our a- level equivalent the Advanced Higher is optional not required for uni entrance here and is not even available in a good range of subjects at all schools. DS did really well and got 3 As at advanced Higher ( equivalent of 3 A*) but only 3% of all High school pupils manage this. Add to that the fact that teachers never suggest Oxbridge as an option and then the fees...So not second best for him and contrary to expectations no one has mentioned it at all. He is completely unaffected by Oxbridge hype, never been interested despite the odd visit, I , however, have to restrain myself from telling people his grades were good enough for an application, hence this stealth boast post... I'll get my coat...

'The bigger problem is not applying in the first place and “staying local”'

I wonder though, is not applying in the first place really a problem? (staying local may raise quite different issues, i agree).

If the student prefers another excellent university to Oxbridge and doesn't apply, to Oxbridge, then it isn't a problem for the student at that point. It may be further down the line with job applications but my sense is that not going to Oxbridge doesn't actually rule you out of anything these days though yes it may make the process harder. Would be interesting to know how many grad employers now do 'university-unaware' recruiting - some do i know.

Think I may just be echoing wigglyb though less succinctly!

DS is still 17 and would only have been 16 when doing interviews and HAT tests, a big ask for a boy from a very small rural town, I can see why he didn't want to try.
I suppose I'm trying to say that there will be plenty of top quality students who put Non Oxbridge unis first for various reasons. At St Andrews the EU students in particular (on popular courses)) often have to meet higher grade conditions than Oxbridge due to the quota on Scots and EU student numbers.

"I suppose I'm trying to say that there will be plenty of top quality students who put Non Oxbridge unis first for various reasons"

Totally agree.

Tangentially it would be interesting to know how many 'contenders' don't apply to Oxbridge because of the hassle of the pretest/interview system. (Though obviously some other places do interiew - UCL, Imperial? Manchester also interview which I hadn't realised.)

It can be quite an additional workload in the 4th term - if you're also doing a Saturday job, sport/music you might just decide you can't spare any more time away from A level work. (I know on mn the dc barely practise/prepare (?ce) for the pre test/interview at all - but ime in rl people do! (Didn't realise that they don't pre test for mfl, that is interesting - although I think in some subjects they test at the same time as the interview - maybe mfl is one of those.)

wiggly I agree. The capping is one reason DD May put Durham as her aspirational rather than St A’s. Both equally amazing but slightly more chance of the offer from Durham. 😏

Thatdidntlastlong Yes, apart from not quite having the right courses for him, DS was put off by the extra work and distraction involved in an Oxbridge application.

Though he then had to hang around till March for an offer from LSE - which clearly has a similar mindset to Durham.

My DD was tested at interview for MFL and had to send in an essay too. No formal test prior to interview though.

I think Oxbridge get beaten up over the perceived lack of state school pupils. There are reasons why very bright DCs don’t apply for the reasons given above. Fear of failure and the extra testing, interview and extra work involved is daunting. Plus early closing and the mysteries of the college system.

However in the jobs market it can be an advantage but not a great one over Durham I would say. Personality and a whole host of other things come into play when selecting for a job. It’s not just degree and university but the best ones undoubtedly open doors!