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Original poster

Is your aspirational worth it if it’s really an Oxbridge insurance?

72 replies

eatinglesschocolate · 30/08/2018 20:00

Basically...DD considering Durham. It would be her aspirational (predicted 3A’s aiming for IR). Anecdotally...does anyone know of students who are there NOT just because they didn’t get their Oxbridge offer?

OP posts:
choccyp1g · 01/09/2018 15:28

DS is thinking of putting Durham as a second choice, because while he is confident of getting the grades that Oxford will ask, he is not confident that Oxford will make him an offer at all.

We were told that they make an offer to about 1 in 3 of the interviewees.

Wonderwine · 01/09/2018 16:11

choccyp1g do you mean 2nd on the list of her UCAS form then? I'm pretty sure that the unis no longer know where on the UCAS form you have put them, just that you've submitted an application to them.
People say that submitting your UCAS form by mid-Oct is a giveaway that you've applied to Oxbridge, but at our school all the students are encouraged to apply as early as possible as they feel it is a positive benefit for students to begin receiving offers before Christmas (and it was). Be warned however that Durham are notorious for offerign early to the 'definites' and waiting until after mid Jan for the remainder when they can see the entire pool of applications.

Wonderwine · 01/09/2018 16:12

Sorry, his UCAS form, not her....

errorofjudgement · 01/09/2018 16:34

Surely everywhere is potentially somebody’s backup option. Even Oxbridge can be a back up in an international context!

choccyp1g · 01/09/2018 18:02

Wonderwine That's good if they don't know whether they are first or last choice. I worry that DS won't get any offers because he wants to try for places that are probably oversubscribed with good candidates.

I realised after posting that "insurance" places are for if you don't get the grades to meet your first offer, rather than a safe application that (you hope) you are sure to get an offer for.

Going back to the original question, maybe it is worth a gamble on your second choice accepting you anyway if you only miss their offer by a little bit

MissMarplesKnitting · 01/09/2018 18:06

Durham isn't necessarily a cheap city to live in as a student. Even twenty years ago it was expensive...I ended up loving mike's out to get a cheaper rent, and spending many hours on the bus out past Gilesgate....

Wonderwine · 01/09/2018 18:23

choccyp1g if you look at university.which.co.uk/courses you can see approximately what % of applicants get offers.
DS knew that the offer rate for his course at Oxford was about 11% Shock but many of the other top universities were 70-80% which is more reassuring.
The problem with having an aspirational 'first' choice when you come to confirm offers as 'firm' and 'insurance' is what then do you put as insurance - a realistic, predicted grades offer, or one that is lower than your predictions in case something goes wrong?

I saw a few of DS1's counterparts come unstuck on this e.g.
Predicted AAA
Firm choice : A*AA
Insurance: AAA

Actual results: AAB and had to find a course in clearing....

Wonderwine · 01/09/2018 18:25

Anyone remember how, in the 80s, Durham and Bristol supposedly wouldn't consider you unless they were first on your list, or second to Oxbridge??

LoniceraJaponica · 01/09/2018 19:50

Newcastle won't consider you if you put them as second choice for biomedical science.

errorofjudgement · 02/09/2018 00:26

Is that second choice to medicine? If you were applying just for Biomedical Science then they wouldn’t know where they were on your preferred list.

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 02/09/2018 00:28

When it was a paper UCCA form the order mattered. Now they'll have a hint you applied to Oxbridge if it's a really early application.

My DS1 applied to Warwick as his aspirational firm for maths and it's teeming with Cambridge maths rejects! It's really not a problem, and he's doing really well there.

Thesearepearls · 02/09/2018 00:32

Bizarrely DS's second choice offered higher grades than his first choice. I don't even know how that works properly

First choice AAAA
Second choice AAA

Admittedly the first choice was Cambridge but if he'd buggered something up (in context) and got a B what would have happened?

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 02/09/2018 00:48

Thesearepearls it was a rather silly insurance place. If he'd not made the grades for Cambridge he'd have also been rejected by his insurance and would have gone into clearing. Cambridge brains don't always make for common sense! Wink

Thesearepearls · 02/09/2018 01:09

That's true Ellen :)

DS's best friend is heading off to Warwick to read maths. It was said best friend that got DS into maths really. The boys are already planning weekends at one another's places.

LoniceraJaponica · 02/09/2018 06:40

"Is that second choice to medicine? If you were applying just for Biomedical Science then they wouldn’t know where they were on your preferred list."

No. If you put them down as your insurance choice when you have accepted offers. Not as a second choice to medicine. That is what they said at the subject talk for biomed.

errorofjudgement · 02/09/2018 06:56

Sorry Lonicera, I’m not understanding you. If they make you an offer and you choose them as your insurance, then what? You seem to be saying they would withdraw the offer?

LoniceraJaponica · 02/09/2018 07:02

It's coming back to me now. I think they said that if you make Newcastle your first choice and you drop a grade they would still consider you, and it was unlikely that there would be any places through clearing. This was at a subject talk 14 months ago. All I clearly remember is that they wanted prospective students to choose Newcastle.

At the time I was less familiar with the university application process, and unclear on whether universities know where they are in the pecking order of student choices. I am still unclear on that actually.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 02/09/2018 07:06

She tells me that Durham is one of the most expensive unis outside London for accommodation etc. Certainly more than Oxford typically is

It’s expensive compared to other cities in the area, but having lived in both, nothing like Oxford prices. Also the cost thing for potential students who are already based in the NE is also about travel etc. I didn’t live in Gilesgate or anywhere like that- would have been much cheaper if I had.

Durham is a great university in loads of ways. I hadn’t applied to Oxbridge. I would say maybe 20-25% of my friends had and had typically just missed their offers. Enough for the “oxbridge rejects” jokes to stick but honestly I could never see an issue. They were brave enough to apply when I wasn’t, why would studying alongside them be a bad thing?

senua · 02/09/2018 07:33

Given that UCAS applications have to be in by mid October the other universities will know that the applicant had applied to Oxbridge and will make offers accordingly.

I don't know if it still the case (UCAS site is being very sloooow so I can't check) but it used to be that you didn't have to push the UCAS button on all five choices at the same time - so you could do Oxbridge before the mid-Oct deadline and the others after.
OP, as others have said, be warned that Durham can be very slow in getting out offers eg leaving it until March. Imagine finding out then that you are a reject so have to accept somewhere else, but find that their accommodation lists have already been open for several weeks...

errorofjudgement · 02/09/2018 07:43

Lonicera - that makes a bit more sense to me. It sounds as though they’re saying that if you choose them as your firm and then slip a grade there’s more chance they’ll consider you than if they were your second choice.

My understanding is universities do not know where they are on your list, in fact I think the ucas form sorts them alphabetically. Each university only gets told that you have applied to them.
If your personal statement is totally focussed on getting an offer from one place then they might guess they’re a back up.

Whatfrenchplacename · 02/09/2018 09:18

senua, eek, not a pleasant scenario! I can see that opening the accommodation lists early could make a university attractive to applicants in some ways (put us firm now, and you can be sure of accommodation!), but in other ways it would be easier if they could wait until at least May I didn't realise until recently that they don't all wait until after the August results, in fact.

i wonder if there's a 'go-to' list which shows which universities open the accom lists when, which guarantee accommodation even to insurance students, and so on. On the margins it could make the difference to at least one of the five choices for some students, I would have thought.

Whatfrenchplacename · 02/09/2018 09:22

On the subject of universities waiting until March/April to make decisions on offers, are there any others well known for this?

Or indeed are any well known for being speedy decision-makers?

Knowing info like this could be v helpful to students coming up with a balanced set of 5 choices - not ideal to be waiting until march for any decisions at all (and i know this does happen in eg medicine) - there is something to be said for not building in too much (additional) stress/uncertainty into Yr 13!

Wonderwine · 02/09/2018 10:11

WhatFrench - in our experience it was only Durham which dragged its heels (for some candidates...) Warwick, Bristol, Southampton all came back within weeks for DS.

Another useful tip re Durham is that you can actually submit a separate personal statement for Durham! No idea if it makes any difference (although of course you'd be able to tailor it specifically to their course) but the only one of DS's friends who did this was the one who got an early offer, so may be worth doing!

LoniceraJaponica · 02/09/2018 10:15

"On the subject of universities waiting until March/April to make decisions on offers, are there any others well known for this? "

Medical schools often take longer as the interview process is quite long and drawn out.

I have a question. If you already have your A levels do universities respond with offers more quickly?

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 02/09/2018 11:19

Birmingham was DS1's slowest response. Warwick, Nottingham, Exeter and Southampton were all pretty quick.