I KNOW this is off topic BUT....I need a Social Workers opinion!

[seaofyou]

I know their are some experienced SWs here

and

lots of parents with experience of SS

I am worried my ds(7) is going to end up in foster care (don't get me wrong nothing wrong with this for a child at risk foster parent(s) do an amazing job)

Ex used to attack house - this has now stopped 12 months ago due to CCTV. Ex has had no contact with ds for nearly 3yrs.

13 months ago Ds had SW (got new one now for direct payments not CIN etc) that when I accidently phoned up for support because ex had tried to break in again that morning leaving screwdriver dents in front door again (I made the mistake and cried) that SW said if I carried on being upset it would effect ds (ds not their when making phone call) ....basically threatening I was not coping.

Ds disclosed physical abuse by df(historic as no contact now)...informed SW...no action

4 months later ds disclosed more abuse...saw solicitor, advised I went to Child Protection Unit (Police). Ds assessed by CPU and asked to attend video suite next day.

Next day at CPU I was informed CPU not taking it any further. CPU had spoken to SW that morning who said I was making it up to get at ex!!!!

Ds had 2 hour meltdown as wanted to tell policeman about his naughty daddy. I felt I had to tell ds the truth that they thought I was telling ds what to say. Thankfully over the weeks ds forgot about df:)

I did try and get therapy for ds but informed by NHS, SS and all agencies NSPCC etc nothing for ds (esp as ds has ASD needs specialist input).

February I decided to meet with SW manager and new SW to show the statements written when ds disclosed to his home tutors and the recording of ds talking about df. The previous SW didnt want them. They said to call them if ds discloses again and SW and police office will come and assess ds. Why? They didn't believe ds first time! So why should ds be put through this again? It's so wrong:(

Then out of the blue month later...ds told me he told dc in school about how his df beat him. I'm too frightened to approach SS about this.

BH weekend ds said 'Is daddy in prison?'. Ds told me he wants to talk about it in school and tell the dc and the teacher! I have told ds not to tell the teacher or dc as SS will say I am telling you this and you may be taken away. Ds is determined to tell his teacher!

After last year's experience I am terrified because of being accused of coaching ds, SS will think I am doing it again....terrified if ds tells teacher etc report to SS and ds will be taken away as they think I have made it up!
It is only a matter of time before ds tells a teacher as getting very verbal about wanting to tell someone in school just this week only.

I am worried sick of SS removing ds!

It is only a matter of time before ds tells his teacher and ds is very head strong about it all! Which I don't blame him as he wants someone to listen rather than mum!

PS if this is the wrong place...does anyone know where SWs hang out on MN to get some professional insight on this? But please all advice from experienced MNs needed as terrified ds will tell teacher:(

Also how can I help my ds forget? Ds memory is amazing and detailed...I call ds my walking diary! Sadly wish those dates with df could be deleted somehow:(

HI,

I am not a SW but a parent and FC. I don't think you need to worry about the being upset bit. I think it is a perfectly normal reaction to be afraid and upset if someone is trying to attack you or is causing damage to your property.

I obviously don't know the whole story, but I would suggest you speak to someone at the NSPCC (or Children 1st in Scotland) about how best to get the help support/listening ear your son needs. If they have concerns they will then flag them up to the relevant authotities. I also think it may be worthwhile phoning Women's Aid and see if you can access some counselling for yourself to help you deal with the trauma you have experienced.

Sorry you are having a tough time and hope that things get better really soon.

Thank you gettinghappy for your support.

I took your advice and phoned the NSPCC. I was told to go through the formal complaints procedure to complain that my ds's reports not taken seriously I don't have the energy to take on an organisation that can take your dc away in a beat. So I can't go down that route as I think the stress would kill me off.

I started counselling at Womens aid half way through my sessions and my session the other day I was too frightened to tell the counsellor re ds talking about abuse/df again as counsellor has a duty to report it to SS? So again feel frightened to tell anyone in RL only my mum.

Glad to see you have been given some good advice and acted on it :) The only thing I would add is could you not go into ds school and speak to head before he does disclose so they are aware in advance of the issues?

Tulip that is what I worried about...I don't want school to know:(

It doesn't effect ds learning/behaviour etc, new SW agreed in past that not a school issue (back then). God I feel worse than the abuser:( Well if the abuser felt bad at all I wonder? What I mean is the horrendous shame of all this I might as well be the abuser...as I feel so bad ds was harmed by df

Ds needs help! But when you are told by CPU you are making it up...where do you turn then for your dc? I feel shredded emotionally....so what is ds feeling?
Ds has no outlet from this it isn't good! It isnt fair on ds!

Seaofyou To be honest I think much of your anxiety may be based on how you are feeling and your own low self esteem and that is making everything so scary and overwhelming.

The reality is if you child makes an allegation then anyone he tells really does need to take it seriously. That does not mean that he will be removed from you.

It does sound like to have had an awful experience with SS, but maybe you could start by trying to trust your counsellor at Women's Aid and share your fears with her. Maybe start by telling her that you have something you really want to share but that you are scared..........................

Hope you can get the help and support you both need really soon.

I am a retired sw and have 30 years experience in child protection and fostering & adoption.

I think your worry about your ds being removed from you is making you think the worst. I think you might have been wrong about the time you range the sw and you were crying. The sw said you would upset you son if he heard you being so upset. You say you thought the sw was "threatening that you were not coping." I honestly don't think that was what she meant at all.

I don't really understand about the time when your ds talked again of abuse in the past and you went to a solicitor who advised you to go to CPU. Then the CPU said they were not taking it any further and they had spoken to sw who said you were making it up to get at your ex...............what exactly did they think you were making up, because as I understand it, the allegation of past abuse was made by your son, not you. Are you sure you have got this right?

Your son clearly wants to talk to the teachers (and other children) about what happened to him in the past and you have told him not to as you are terrified of what happened last year. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think your anxiety over this is making things seem worse than they are.

The main problem here in my opinion is that your son (how old is he) desperately wants to talk to someone about what happened to him in the past, and he chooses to tell the school about this. I think the best thing to do is to have a talk with the head teacher and say that any abuse that your son talks about is in relation to the past when his father lived with you and this is no longer the case. The head teacher should then tell his class teacher and there will be no need for them to contact social services, and even if they do, they should have it on record that your son is talking about something in the past.

You have become terrified of social workers and I can see why because you think they are about to pounce and remove your son and this is not the case. A child cannot be removed from parents, unless he is suffering significant harm in the present and your son is not - and believe me the last thing social workers want to do is remove children from their mothers. When children are removed, the sw has to go to court to get an Emergency Protection Order and they have to have evidence of this, and there isn't any evidence, because he is being well cared for by you.

SO you must put this worry out of your head. The main problem is that your son needs some help and support to help him to come to terms with his past abuse. If you contact Social Services, you can ask them to refer him to an organisation called CAMHS (Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service) and he will have someone to talk to, as he clearly has a real need to do this.

If you don't want to contact SS, your GP can make a referral to CAMHS. They ar social workers but specialise in helping children and young people who are distressed for whatever reason. You ask how you can make your son "forget" what happened - and the simple answer is that you (nor anyone else can do this) because it's not possible. All you can do is to give your son every opportunity to talk to you (or teachers) although they don't really have the time to really help him) or someone from CAHMS) and over time the memory may become more distant, and that's true for all of us.

YOu are very wrong about the Women's Aid counsellor contacting the social worker - this is absolutely not the case. You need to talk to your counsellor about your worries and this might help you to help your son. They certainly don't have a duty to tell social services anything, unless you were telling them that you or someone else was abusing your son now not in the past. If you don't believe me, check it out with them and tell them you want to talk about something related to your son's distress from the past but don't want social services to know, and she will confirm that this will be just between you and her.

I know you are terrified of having your son removed, but this is not going to happen........believe me social workers have huge caseloads and they have quite enough cp cases and they are not going to be looking for work.
SO please stop worrying and try and get your son referred to CAMHS (this is a free service) there may be a waiting list.

Thank you for the informative reply Nana it really helped.

I am going through court maintanence order with ex as he has been on run for 3yrs from it and in that time has attacked my home quite a few times. SW thought I was putting ds up to it to get back at ex. So although ds disclosing them thinking it was my words iykwim! I was accused as having delusions about ex (CPU words after speaking to SW).

My fears also were confirmed by a few MN replies too, which naturally heightened my suspicion over SW comments, I felt were spot on.

I decided yesterday eve that I could not bury this situation and ds may well disclose in school, which will result in SS being contacted anyway. So I had to contact SS myself as I myself tormented by this. Mainly what would SS do...which you stated would not happen, ds being removed. I had to face my demons as the saying goes.

Thankfully not as bad as what I anticipated and ds will be seen hopefully in 2-3 months for counselling by specialist SW in abuse disclosure. The SS manager wants what is best for ds too and to be able to talk about his past experiences, which I am hugely relieved with this outcome! A start to getting ds the help to be healed from this past awful mess.

Oh good - I'm glad you now realise that SS do not want to remove your son from you, and are going to get him the help he needs, which is the main problem. Are you going to talk to the school about the fact that your son feels the need to talk to teachers (and the other children) but that social services are aware of this and are going to get him the help he needs, but there may be a wait. You could ask the sw to get in touch with the Head teacher if that would be better for you.

In the meantime, can you encourage to talk to you about his past, or maybe he could write about, or draw pictures about it, and use paint and felts etc., as sometimes children find it easier to do this rather than talking. It's difficult because I don't the age of your son.

Sorry ds is 7yrs old and has Aspergers to add to the complication re counselling etc that is why when I first tried to seek counselling last year their was nothing not even at CAHMS. Paed said I best try and help ds...which I did big shock it has returned but found out trigger last eve when I discussed plan re SW counselling with ds. Ds knows the SW as his new one but on sick leave at present and I preferred for ds to wait for return. I will know more next week.

I don't want school knowing if we can get away with it as don't want LEA knowing re ds statemented etc.

I did drawing for first time last week when ds wanted to go to teacher. I think it helped but I ain't no expert just let ds draw. He drew 'family' mum, ds ans nan, then I asked was there anyone else and he said 'I am going to draw angry daddy' which was no where near us and ds did speech bubble with 'I am going to beat you'

Couldn't or didn't know what to do with it, put it in bin after ds went to bed. Ds was 3-5 when all this happen (ds non verbal could not tell me and df thankfully only saw ds few times) no more contact thankfully for 2 yrs.

Ah seaofyou - that was really good to get your ds drawing (you don't need to be an expert at drawing, stick people are fine, and a square for a house with a chimney etc., you know the way kids always draw houses.

Think it was really good that he could draw "angry daddy" and him saying "I am going to beat you" - was that a memory of what his dad said to him, or what your son would like to do to dad. Doesn't really matter - it's the fact that it is helping hi to express his emotions, when he is so young and has AS too.

Oh sea don't put the drawings in the bin - they are really important - in fact he could have a big scrap book for drawing whatever, but you have encouraged him to draw his family, then you might ask him to draw himself when dad was at home, and then now when he is not there. In fact give hin free rein, let him draw what he likes, and keep them. You can then go back and talk about some of the explicit pictures like the one you described.

You can do painting too, and play dough models of people (dad might turn out to be a big spikey monster, it doesn't matter at all - the important things is you are helping ds express himself. Well done and keep it up.

Thank you Nana will do keep a scrap book as ds emotions in their very important and I realised after you suggested it that oops I threw it in the bin...didn't think of keeping it as a bad memory. As I want ds to forget...but best way is through working through it not running away which I was doing as wanted to protect ds and made it worse I think?

I will get ds to draw family 'now' and when ds went to other 'family' (df's)

Yes ds said this is what df used to say and not just do:(

Ds is really good at drawing spiders/monsters...? df has brought ds creative side out? One of the spiders which took whole sheet looked so real thought it could walk off page!! Ds has poor fine motor skills so shocked with this 'creativity' and can't paint/playdough well due to fine motor issues. But I know it is not about how good the painting is but ds expresses himself and lets it out!

Woohoo Sea - good for you! None of us can forget painful episodes in our past, as you say, we have to work through them as best we can and I think you are well on the way to helping your ds. Try not to be too directive, you could just ask him to draw/paint whatever he likes and sometimes this might be about the past and sometimes not, as it needs to be something he enjoys doing.

Poor little boy has been traumatised by his father but he has you as a mother who protected him from this unsafe man and can now help him to heal the wound a little. It will never be completely healed and will probably leave a scar but you are the one who canhelp the healing process. If SS find someone else to help, so much the better, but don't under estimate yourself at being able to help, and praise his drawings and paintings. How about some bit fat felt tips (will help with trouble with fine motor skills) and paints with big fat brushes.

Nana spoke to counsellor and she advised like you said to speak to school...so I have made appointment with HT tomorrow. Biting the bullet incase I run a mile again next few days and it's over with then.

Any advise is welcome? Should I tell HT everything even attacks on home etc or just disclosures? Counsellor said keep it brief.

Thank you again for your support and ideas to help ds get over this.

Just wanted to say - Seaofyou, you're a great Mum and you're doing a fantastic job with supporting DS, and NanaNina you are a lovely lady. You both deserve

Damn the flowers thing didn't work....please imagine two lovely bunches of flowers

And I second Selks.

Oops, need another

Thank you Selks and OLKN means a lot, need the strong vibes today please send them my way to give me strength to get through the HT door and not cry....Nana has been an amazing resource to hold my virtual hand through this, Nana from me too

OLKN have not heard nothing re court...this could take years! But glad it isn't at this time as can't cope with 2 huge stresses of being threatened with our lives at same time as reporting it all so grateful of the long delay

Hi Sea - I think it would be best to just tell HT that as she may know (because he has spoken with teachers before) that ds sometimes has the need to talk to a teacher or children abou past abuse from his father. Mention that SS know about this and his father has no contact with him. You could say you are trying to help him at home to help with the bad memories and SSs are going to get a counsellor for him asap. No need to go into detail of what happened in the post. The focus for all the adults now is to help your ds to begin to heal. Incidentally Sea the HT is an ordinary mortal like you and me, so no need to be worried about talking to her.

Thank you so much for all the kind words and flowers - completely unexpected so especially nice.

Sea - I am just off to Ireland to see my love gr/chdrn - but be back next Monday.

How did it go with the HT, sea?

OLKN I domt know what is happening? I was about to go to school and I phoned SS and was told not to tell school and wait for counselling in 2-3 months.

I have just found out another incident last week at school, but I cannot say anything as told not to discuss with school! I don't know why? I thought letting school/HT know would be a good thing if ds mentioning it at school!?

I am really confused and getting suspicious about SS approach!

Did SS say why you shouldn't say anything to school? Seems very odd. And it's not as if you can stop your ds disclosing if he wants to.

Do your local WA have an outreach childrens' worker who might be able to work with your ds? I understand he needs specialist help but they might have someone he can at least talk to.

Shitty situation for you. :(

Hi OLKN

Yes I tried WA children services, they couldn't help and just reported it to SS!
CAHMS psychologist off for 2 yrs no replacement
SS psychologist has not been replaced
NSPCC had nothing

Not looking great hey!

I got a feeling school already reported to SS and that is why SS don't want me going to school? But I'm not sure yet I will ask SS manager tomorrow? I found out by accident today re last week ds upset over dad in school...they never even contacted me over it!?

Nothing adds up? Why would school not tell me ds was upset? Why would SS say don't go to school?

God my orginal fears re SS planning to take ds into foster care has just resurficed! I don't know where to turn to for help/advice and Nana gone away!

Any other Social workers around who got an idea what might be happening here?

Honestly Seaofyou if your ds is not in danger now, and it sounds as if he is not and you are a caring mother trying to help him as best you can, I am certain they wont put him into foster care.

I am a foster carer not a sw but I speak to loads of other foster carers at support groups etc and it would definately be discussed if anyone felt a child was in fc for no reason apart from something that happened previously. If you are doing all you can to help him heal and move on, what can anyone else expect.

Find out tomorrow why they are suggesting you dont speak to the school. Say it is not good enough to just say that without giving a good reason.

Have they got anything against you? Do they feel you are not coping? How do you come across when you are speaking to them? Do they think the dad of ds is still seeing you? That would worry them tbh.

Good luck and keep in touch, and oh yes for my hero NanaNina when she returns on Monday sad they don't have the internet in Ireland