If you try your hardest to avoid “ultra processed foods”….

[ReeseWitherfork]

There’s an article on the BBC website about “ultra processed foods” and it’s got me wondering if I can make some easy swaps on things. I am sure there are some people out there who’ve explored this before. I cook from scratch, eat a lot of fresh fruit and vegetables, but I’m wondering if I need to start looking at things like a bread maker (we’re a fan of a sandwiches my house!)…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-65754290

Bread - fresh, then freeze it, just flour water and salt. Easy to find organic in many stores.

I went so far with this for almost 10 years that I developed orthorexia, I became terrified of foods that I hadn't made from scratch with a thousand perishable ingredients.
I eventually moved out of that mindset and now live a healthy yet relaxed life with food. Worth considering because there's a black hole which is easy to slip down, here. I became such a 'purist' that I could no longer shop in regular stores.
And no, my health didn't improve.

I now eat more sensible and allow some processed foods such as a decent pasta sauce into my diet. I try not to fall for the often pointless marketing of organic unless the product is genuinely superior.

If you make decent choices and eat a moderate, balanced diet, you should never experience any issues health-wise in the average human lifetime. I had to learn this the hard way.

All that said, I would still never buy reconstituted meat or anything with unnecessary salt. I like milk chocolate and will enjoy it when I am in the mood.

@frostyfours

Thanks. I have made tortilla wraps but it is time consuming and I'm not sure it would be desirable in a big family that's used to eating them frequently. We use them for dinner occasionally - looks like the tortilla press others have mentioned could really help cut down on some of the time.

I have this question too. I’m using sunflower oil which I thought was fine but it seems like it’s not. I’ve also used avocado oil which is great but too expensive to use regularly for something that uses so much oil.

I’m a little about oils and what is going is good and bad. Why is sunflower oil ultra processed?

M&S do a peanut butter made with just peanuts. It is cheaper and of larger volume than the more popular healthy butters.

I quit eating peanut butter it after choking on it, but that's another issue..

Also try to remember that a TON of marketing depends upon us parting with our money. A lot of these purist brands and youtubes/evangelists are in it for the profit, too.
They know their audience; those of us with the time and mind and budget to worry about it, and a lot of the more obsessive messaging is unnecessary.

Most of us here are aware of UPF's, so the messaging really ought to be aimed to those who are struggling, both financially and intellectually with eating a balanced diet. There are kids who do not know what a real chicken is, or a vegetable. This is where to issues lie, but strangely the marketing seems to only target the already mindful, more affluent amongst us. I wonder why that is?

No one offers a solution because of capitalism. Ocado and waitrose whoppers have options, these companies will procure items of a higher standard for a higher price, and offer us the luxury of choice (notice Lidl, Asda and Tesco rarely supply nitrate free bacon, decent bread even organic meat in many places - trust me!).

The issue really lies at the Heron Foods, Iceland level, where customers are truly stuck for choice, where the budget is compromised severely. This is the section of our population who are eating too much UPF, suffering health consequences, etc. Yet there's no real galvanising force to change it.

Most of us here are just fine. We can make our choices, and I am sure, even with the occasional sausage roll and left over easter egg it won't affect our longevity or general health.

Please try to be aware of this, it can become an obsession, and within some social groups/communities it can lead to competitive eating, self denial and orthorexia.

waitrose whoppers lol!
i meant shoppers

I have a Thermomix and make stock paste (veggie, chicken, beef) which stays in a glass jar in the fridge. It’s just veggies, herbs, salt, olive oil and meat. I just use a teaspoonful when I need to.

They are an extravagant purchase but a Thermomix makes avoiding UPFs surprisingly easy. Sauces and marinades are very quick so things like mayonnaise, custard etc are done in there. Bread like pitas and naans are really easy as well.

Our biggest struggle is oat milk as 2 out of 3 of us have a milk intolerance.

@InTheMoonglow I’m sorry you developed orthorexia.
But it’s not your place to tell us we are all doing fine on this thread. Please don’t discourage parents who are trying to navigate UPF and make better choices for their children.
With all due respect, not everyone has an addictive personality, nor do we lack sense of proportion.

The only oat milk I've found with no thickeners or stabilisers is Jord but it does contain organic rapeseed oil.

@toastofthetown thank you for the oils links. I think it's really hard to avoid any seed oils at all in moderately processed foods (for eg in Jord oatmilk!).

I now use cold-pressed rapeseed for frying and EVOO for everything else. I am VERY CONFUSED tho so if anyone has any thoughts please do say. @toastofthetown I appreciate your point that, in standard OO, the loss the health benefits of EVOO is not the same as being actively harmful.

This on Oatly and its use of rapeseed oil and phosphates [[https://www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/oatly-responds-in-defense-of-its-ingredients www.jeffnobbs.com/posts/oatly-responds-in-defense-of-its-ingredients was very interesting (though quite a lot to take in for a non-science person) . He says outright that most research which finds health benefits to rapeseed oil are funded by the rapeseed industry.

Aldi do one too

Annoyingly all the gums are bad for the microbiome too @ReeseWitherfork

The only non UPF wraps I've found are crosta and mollica piadina which are great but a lot more expensive.

I use marigold for stock but it has HVP in it so maybe I'll knock that on the head. Anyone know of an ok vegan/vegetarian stock?

This is great advice - just change one thing. Then when that's bedded in, change the next thing.

I'm going to change our peanut butter and start baking lemon muffins for the freezer

@Porridgeislife I've resisted all the fancy new-fangled cooking devices, but the Thermomix really does look fantastic. (Sadly the budget will resist for me.)
The manufacturer also has a vacuum range named Kobold 😍

Novice bread maker here - so I made my first loaf today with Sainsbury's white bread flour, salt, water, yeast and olive oil. So will this no be classed as UPF (wasn't sure about the bread flour ingredients list).

Glebe farm oat milk which I found in home bargains is not bad. Plenish brand also looks ok

Someone I know uses avocado oil and swears by it. It's very expensive, however. So I'm still using regular mayonnaise, but not excessive quantities.

Yes, I am put off by the cost of avocado oil. Is olive oil still healthy when it is no longer extra virgin, and has been further processed to get the last of the oil out of the olive? Is rapeseed oil okay if it is cold pressed?

Another question from me - snack ideas for small children? Are things like homemade flapjack bette for them than say breadsticks, baby bel, toast, rice cakes, cereal bars etc? I've always focussed more on avoiding too much sugar but maybe that's not so much the problem. Any recipes?

Good questions. I would have assumed olive oil is still healthy even if it's no EVOO, but then I came across this: https://timperio.co/extra-virgin-olive-oil-is-better-than-olive-oil/. Need to look further in this to check as it's from the website of a company that sells EVOO and may be biased.
Cold pressed rapeseed oil would be fine if it wasn't for the flavour.

This is my favourite topic, through trial and error I have mastered the art of the healthy snacks. Most important thing - children prefer variety over quantity, so it's better to prep them small snack bowls with 3-4 tiny amounts of each. Otherwise there is a constant stream of asking for say, a banana, then a bowl of blueberries, then a Babybel... so they overeat and pester too much.

So I usually keep a good stock of fruits & berries, vegetables for snacking (carrots, cucumber, cherry tomatoes), several types of nuts, several types of cheeses (cheddar, apetina white cheese cubes/feta, Babybel), some olives (green/black in salt water, not coated in oil)... so a snack can look like this:

• 3-4 strawberries, a carrot (peeled), 6-7 nuts (cashews/walnuts/pecans..)
• Blueberries, a slice of cheddar, half an apple
• 3-4 olives, cucumber slices, half a nectarine

You get the idea. Tailor variety and quantities around how hungry they are and relative to previous/next meal, some snack bowls can be more substantial.

If you bake, I'd say flapjacks and shortbread are quite enough, with the occasional sponge cake, or banana/walnut & date loaf etc.

You can incorporate flapjacks into snack bowls, just less of it.

You can make your own snack bowl rules, e.g. it should contain 1 berry, 1 fruit, 1 veg, 1 protein (cheese/nuts/boiled egg). Go wild. :)

@AlfietheSchnauzer thanks for the spelling correction
Silly me 🙃

@7Worfs thank you for suggesting flapjacks or shortbread

Walnut oil is also fantastic for salads, but, like olive oil, has a low smoking point, so not great for cooking.

@PosiePerkinPootleFlump

What do you use for your starter? We go through gallons of Rachel's and Yeo Valley Greek yoghurt and I keep thinking we should start making it, but it seems ridiculous to have to buy yoghurt to start it.

We try to eat mainly non upf but accept that it will only ever be about 80%.

Out best swaps have been Rora dairy yogurt as it’s ingredients are literally milk, strawberries and sugar and I’m also finding that part baked rolls tend to have less stuff in them than normal bread.

Ive found that the costs of our shopping has gone down as I don’t buy jars/ biscuits/ crisps/ pizza etc any more.

We were buying those cheap kids fromage frais and switched to a big tub of Greek yogurt (Aldi the best one!) with chopped fruit and a smidge of honey or maple syrup and they love it!

weve really found our portion sizes have reduced too