I can't make good bread

[CatJumperTwat]

I bought a bread maker and have tried recipe after recipe, all disasters. Where am I going wrong? Do you have any tried and tested recipes for wholemeal?

Loaf 1, wholemeal, made according to a recipe that came with the breadmaker. Water, butter, salt, yeast, milk powder, white flour, wholemeal flour. Didn't rise so was very dense and unpleasant.

Loaf 2, same recipe but I added more yeast to help the rise. Same result.

Loaf 3, tried an online recipe (www.allrecipes.com/recipe/17215/best-bread-machine-bread/). Actually this did work in that it rose and came out bread-shaped, but it had no flavour. I don't really want white bread anyway.

Loaf 4, pre-made wholemeal bread mix. All I did was add water as per the instructions. When I peeked the dough lookded good, but at some point it must have collapsed. Came out about 1.5 inches thick but at least tastes nice.

The yeast is well in date and comes in little sealed packets so shouldn't be dead.
I'm using warm water, not cold or hot.
I'm using strong bread flour.
I'm selecting the correct programme for the type of bread.
Loaf #3 did rise and looked how bread should look, so I assume there isn't some fundamental fault with the bread machine itself.

What else can I try?

Firstly I'd say don't peek!

Wholemeal loaves are harder to make, maybe try a recipe with a mixture like this?
www.dovesfarm.co.uk/recipes/bread-machine-wholemeal-loaf

Are you putting the ingredients in to the pan in the right order? In our old bread maker, the recipe book specified putting the ingredients in in the order they were listed, so yeast went in first, then flour, then milk etc and water last (so it didn't contact the yeast too soon).

UniversalTruth The machine has a window on top so you can peek without opening it! I'll try that recipe next

usernamealreadytaken Yep the recipe said to follow the order. I think the yeast went in last, on top of the flour. Weirdly the most successful loaf had water and yeast going in first...

If you want well risen bread I think mixed in some white flour, unfortunately.

The first two I tried had a mix of white and wholemeal. 100g white and 200g wholemeal I think?

I don't use a bread maker, just a stand mixer, but I used to really struggle with bread until I did some reading and understood that there are certain temperatures that yeast acts in certain ways. Too hot and you kill the yeast, too cold and it won't activate. I now use a meat thermometer every time to ensure my liquids are the ideal temperature, not really had any issues since.

Here's the recipe I use. I've honed it down over the years, and it's always been reliable.

150g strong white flour
350g strong wholemeal flour
I tablespoon sugar
1 teaspoon salt
25ml oil
370 ml water
1 teaspoon dried yeast

Method:
My bread maker has a yeast dispenser so the yeast goes in there, but if yours doesn't, try putting the yeast in the bottom of the bread pan before anything else. Then put in the flour, covering the yeast completely.

Put the sugar in one corner and the salt in another, well away from each other on top of of flour, don't make a well in the flour (important for the salt not to get anywhere near the yeast).

Pour the oil in, then pour the water on top. Cold water works fine in mine, so try that. If yours specifies warm water, make sure it's only lukewarm.

That's it, it took longer to write than it does to make I sprinkle a handful each of linseeds, pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds on top of the mix too. I don't put milk powder in mine, don't think it's needed. Fingers crossed for you!

SummaLuvin What temperature is ideal? The recipe I linked said 45C, but I don't have a thermometer so I just guessed.

Dontslipontheice Thank you, I'll try that one! What size loaf does it make? Mine only makes a 1lb so I might have to halve everything.

this link is what I use as a reference, around 45C is what I aim for. However, it does mention a much lower temperature for bread makers now I am looking again, as I have never used one I don't actually understand how they work and why a lower temperature is desirable. A meat thermometer is quite a small and affordable piece of equipment, I personally wouldn't be without one now, but always struggled guessing temp by feel alone, some people are much more instinctual.

Make sure the water you put in is luke warm apparently it makes a huge difference.

Afraid I don't know what size it makes in terms of weight, it's just the 'large' button on my machine 🤣 Think I'd try 2/3 probably, half would be really small.

The recipe you set out OP doesn't include sugar. Do any of them include sugar? The yeast needs it to 'feed' on and give a good rise. The recipes l use (usually 500g flour) all include a tablespoon of sugar. Or honey does the same job.
And I find using anything more than 50% wholemeal flour produces an almost inedible brick of a loaf. My 'wholemeal' loaves are always half and half.

Ahh so much good advice! I was ready to give up but now I'll keep going, and I'll buy a thermometer.

I agree that yeast come first, you need both salt and sugar and you need to weight everything carefully.
However I would change flour and yeast, we had this with our bread maker at the beginning. We stick to Allison’s easy bake yeast from now on and bread flour from Waitrose or Lidl both their own.
where do you keep your yeast before and after? It’s important as well. I had a bit of disaster just before Xmas , I probably left yeast out of the fridge so just bought a new one and it’s ok again.
I use almost the same recipe as @Dontslipontheice only mine asks for 1.5 tsp of sugar and 1.25 tsp of salt.

That's the spirit OP! It took me a while to get it right. I've been using a breadmaker for more years than I care to remember and I still get the occasional dud loaf. They get turned into breadcrumbs and frozen for crumbles and gratins.

How are you measuring your ingredients, particularly the water? If you're using digital scales, maybe check that they are accurate/battery isn't low. I had this after years of making bread in the breadmaker. Several loaves in a row turned out like bricks. I tried new yeast, new flour, taking the machine to bits, even borrowed a breadmaker from a friend. Turned out to be the scales which although appeared to show correct numbers were actually broken and completely inaccurate.

Also yeast should be kept in the fridge. I've had a few dud loaves from dried yeast not refrigerated during a hot summer.

I'm not sure you need a thermometer to make bread tbh. Do your breadmaker instructions say cold or lukewarm water? If it's lukewarm, just put your finger in the water, as long as it doesn't feel hot or cold, that'll be fine.

Oh and I agree about the yeast being kept in the fridge. Even if it is in date, it still deteriorates with time.

I'm using this dried yeast that I keep in a cupboard: www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/259108442

I tested my scales with an few pre-weighed items and they're accurate, so it isn't that.

The breadmaker recipes just say "water", no mention of temperature. With the first loaf I used cold straight from the tap, then somebody told me I should use lukewarm so I tried that for the second loaf. I might have gone too warm though? The third loaf said 45C so I aimed for a bath temperature which seemed to work fine.

Not sure has this been mentioned...what make of bread machine is it?

I'd have thought bath temperature was a bit too hot. As a PP said I'd aim for body temperature ie it doesn't feel hot or cold when you put your finger in it.
Although I tend to use Allinson's easy bake yeast I've used that Tesco's yeast before and it's been fine. I also keep mine in a cupboard which happens to be quite cool. I'm interested in the suggestion that the hot weather last year may have been the cause of some dud loaves if yeast got too warm. Maybe I should put mine in the fridge in the summer.
And I agree that the order and placement of ingredients is important. Yeast in the bottom, then flour, then sugar and salt in opposite corners, butter/oil and water on top.

I measure flour and water using measuring cups - 3 of flour (w/meal or white or a mix) and about 1 1/3 to 1 1/2 cups of warm water - I do it by eye.. I use boiling water for the 1/3ish and cold tap water for the full cup.
The order I use is oil, flour, water then the sugar, yeast and salt.
I sometimes put the yeast (rapid type) and the sugar into the water, or sometimes make a well in the flour for the yeast, and it works equally well both ways.
I’ve always had Panasonic bread makers.

I’ve never been able to make good bread by hand despite trying lots of recipes and measuring temperatures very carefully. My mum could just throw some ingredients together, knead it a bit and bung it in the oven, and we had perfect loaves every time. She obviously was favoured by the bread goddess!

Thinking about it, all my bread ingredients, apart from the water, start at the same temperature. I keep the dry ones together in a big tupperware that I can just pull out of the cupboard and the butter and oil are in the same place. Maybe that helps so there isn't one ingredient chilling things down too much.

I do find breadmaking fascinating. It's one of those things that's both an art and a science!

This is my bread maker: www.currys.co.uk/products/tower-t11003-breadmaker-black-10220648.html II didn't know what to look for so I found some of those "10 best bread maker" lists and it had good reviews.

I'm wondering how on earth bread was invented. I have a machine designed for that purpose, recipes perfected over centuries, and a supermarket with all the ingredients, and I still can't do it. How on earth did somebody make it by accident?

I keep yeast in a cupboard, room temperature, after opening they go to the fridge but if your pack has just one portion you don’t need it. It’s our 2nd bread maker, we’ve been using them for last 16 years and I never warmed water up, just used ordinary room temperature from a jug in the kitchen and a few times cold from filter. I never used thermometer as well, once everything in and lid’s closed, just waited. But I do believe that you can get different results with different flours and yeast. It could be not you but they were kept in a wrong conditions in the shop.