Nursery packed lunch policy giving my son grief

[ScummyMummy]

Can anyone give me any thoughts on this? My sons started a full day at nursery at the beginning of this month and take in a packed lunch. The nursery has a policy that the children must eat their savoury food before they can go on to any sweeter stuff included. I don't have a problem with this per se but they seem to be taking it a bit far with one of my sons. He came back today with an almost full lunch box having been denied access to his yogert, banana, cheese, bread sticks and dried fruit because he wouldn't eat his chicken drumstick. This is not the first time this has happened. It's not like I'm including particularly unhealthy stuff and I'm really not very happy with the idea that he hasn't had anything approaching a proper meal all day. Has anyone else come across this sort of a policy? To be fair to the nursery, who are generally absolutely fantastic, I'm sure my son isn't particularly easy at lunchtime. He can be a bit fussy and faddy and very stubborn if he is told to eat something that he has decided is horrid. I want to query this with the nursery but am not sure whether I'm overreacting or how to approach it given that they obviously can't change their whole policy just for my son. Any advice welcome!

I have never dealt with this sort of thing with my 3 kids nor in any of the centers I worked in. However my 2 older children did attend a private school way back where my oldest boy had a teacher whos policy was that you had to (try) and eat at least half a sandwich if its what you brought before you ate sweet things like cakes, cookies etc, etc. I am very surprised that they would not allow him to eat all his lunch at the same time. It seems to me to be all healthy foods. I understand they want the kids to eat the main meal before sweets because we all know theyll eat sweets first but to keep them from eating healthy food is strange. Depending on how much of a main course you send with him. I think they should try and get them to eat at least half of it over all of it at first. I hate to eat one thing till its all gone. I generally myself prefer to munch on everything all the same time.

How horrid for you, I think that maybe you could point out to the staff at the nursery that breadsticks and cheese are not sweet items and are part of the lunch so he can choose what he prefers at the time and as long as he eats a good portion of the savoury you want him to get access to the rest of his lunch. While you do not have to be rude to them (although I think I would be sorely tempted) you will have to make them see that refusing to give a child sufficiant food for the day is absolutley not on. Good Luck

Oh, what a load of toss scummy!!! Surely what children eat is more important than the order in which they eat it? What on earth does it matter as long as they eat? When we as parents are advised not to make food a battleground, not to make an issue out of eating etc etc, who are the nursery to dictate the order in which food is eaten? If I went to a restaurant and wanted pudding before my starter they'd give it to me wouldn't they? (not a good analogy, can't think of a better one though atm!) And if your ds is stubborn, like mine, I can just imagine the set look and the subsequent absolute refusal to eat a thing. OK, so I wouldn't approach the nursery in the manner I've outlined above ! but I do think it's a bit silly. Maybe the thinking behind their policy is that some parents include chocolate/sweets and they want the sandwich etc eaten first? but still...I'd approach it diplomatically (although you wouldn't think so to read what I've written above) but I would try to get this changed or the nursery are setting up bigger problems to come up for themselves, you and your ds. IMO.

Oh and meant to say is seems especially ridiculous given that all the options were healthy ones...

This policy is absolutely daft and your poor son must be ravenous by the time he gets home (my dd is a little sod when she's hungry so the nursery could be making a rod for its own back). If they won't budge, could you make him stuff like pasta/rice salad and mix up as much as you can (eg. chicken, grapes, raisins etc) into it so the nursery can't withold any part of it and he does at least get his whole savoury meal? I agree this kind of subterfuge shouldn't be necessary though.

send him tomorrow with just three bags of crisps and watch them get their knickers in a twist.
What a completely up - their- bum policy. It's not like he a had a lunchbox full of chocolate.

sorry Scummy, that was neither adult nor helpful

But it was funny Jasper

, Jasper!

Scummy, I'm not surprised you were upset, poor boy must have been starving. I think that you must speak to the nursery and point out that although you understand their policy, and agree with it, the options were hardly sweets and chocolate. Good luck!

What arse! You've provided a good selection of food - far better that he eats what he wants than goes hungry. Making food such an issue will probably cause more problems than good and could end up with his hating nursery completely. Sock it to 'em scummy.

It reminds me of that film 'Starman' with Jeff Bridges. When the woman takes him to a restaurant and he starts with his sweet. When she tells him that you should eat that last, he just looks blankly and says 'Why?'

Like your idea Jasper! In fact Scummy, you could really play games with them on this. Sorry, I know you like the nursery but...oo, it'd be soooo tempting.

I feel the same as the others Scummy and I know for a fact that if dd was told to eat x before y then the sum total eaten would be zip. However leave her to it and her ideal would be to eat a yoghurt using a mini Pepperami as a spoon (yes I know they're crap but she loves them) followed by the rest of her lunch in what ever order she felt like on the day.
Fine(ish) if they want to segregate the breadsticks, cheese etc too but just to say no more of anything till you've had the chicken is pants !(is this the ds who wanted you to rebuild a fried egg many moons ago ?)

Also, feel free to disagree, but doesn't this approach tend to suggest that the sweet stuff is the nice bit and you've got to tolerate the savoury to be rewarded with sweet ? Not suggesting that kids should eat nothing but biscuits if they refuse savoury but dykwim ?

Totally agree with the others - this is ridiculous. How can a child know what order is 'right' Anyway I'd always rather have the pudding first!

Thanks everyone! Feel immensely reassured as well as v tempted by the evil sending in 5 types of chocolate ideas- thanks Jasper and Tinker:D. I am sharpening my claws and getting ready for action! Actually I have delegated first investigations to my partner as he is taking them to nursery tomorrow morning. If he doesn't get the chance to pin someone down and make sure our boy doesn't starve I shall be in for the (extremely tactful, of course) kill when I pick them up.
Twink- it's actually the other little bugger who's refusing to play ball this time. Fried egg boy LOVES the routine of nursery- and his food, come to that, couldn't care less what he eats first. How things change! Totally agree with you on the sweet/savoury front btw and am a bit baffled by the nursery's approach on this one, especially as they seem so enlightened on most other issues.
Thanks again, oh wise people and I'll let you know how it goes.

Meant not :D

I've never heard anything so silly....please tell me which nutrition rule book states that one must eat savory things before sweet ones in order to have a balanced diet. Don't the teachers at the nursery have better things to do with their time than police children while they are eating their lunch!!!! I agree with www send him in with 3 bags of crisps. Or really confuse them...how about some chocolate covered pretzels (american thing) or better yet some chicken mole (mexican sweet/savory dish) or sweet and sour chicken (chinese sweet/savoury dish) or some honey cured ham (english sweet/savoury dish).

My only bad memory from my nursery/school days is one montessori nursery that I went to that insisted that we all sit crosslegged when being read to. I preferred to sit with my legs folded underneath me, but this was not considered acceptable behavior. I was also punished daily for not sleeping at naptime....it wasn't enough that I lay still and quiet on my mat and just didn't need the extra sleep. I think my mother pulled me out of that school after a week.
I'm not sure why it's considered a good idea to teach children that there is only one right way to do things. Hardly condusive to developing a creative imaginative independent child.
ok rant over, now I just have to figure out how to get my son to eat his breakfast cereal with a spoon instead of his fingers....

This is a hard one - I can see what the nursery are getting at, but they seem to be taking it to extremes. Certainly the other things in his lunchbox seem perfectly healthy to me. I have a dd who, if allowed to eat her sweet course first, would never eat anything else. For her we have to have a rule that she eats a certain amount of savoury first, otherwise she wouldn't eat anything healthy. However I try to give a selection of savoury stuff, and as long as she's eaten a reasonable amount there's no point in making a huge fuss about it. If I were you I'd go an talk to the nursery and sort this out.

I have always been of the opinion that the fact that my children are eating far outweighs the importance of order. I wanted them to enjoy their food rather than sit down at the table and be struck with blows of petty rules, making them unlikely to eat anything at all.

I would be fuming that the nursery hadn't allowed him to eat his dinner, especially as it was such a good one. You do need to mention it, it is really awful for such a small person to go all day with virtually no food.

I just want to add that I think it's perfectly reasonable for a parent, as in Azzie's case to make rules about eating that are specific to their child's needs/habits/etc.. I just find it strange that a nursery would think that blanket rules about food habits are appropriate in an educational setting. Especially when the result is a child that doesn't eat at all. Shouldn't this type of disciplining be up to a parent?

The nursery staff should have let him eat the rest of his food, sometimes children go off something for a while, or just don't fancy it on that day (like adults!)It is far more important that your son eats some of his lunch rather than none. I would expect the nursery to work WITH my son on this one, just like they presumably do with other kids who are "fussy" or "stubborn" in other areas of life/behaviour. Causing your son to go hungry is not an option. All "policies" in a nursery (except safety) should be more flexible than this. General rules are one thing but reason must hold sway. As you can see i feel quite strongly on your behalf and would absolutely be talking to the staff about it. Good luck and let us know what happens.

Scummy, agree with the raft of comments you've got. Just wondered if lunchtimes at this nursery are more chaotic than normal? I assume that in order to carry out their no dessert rule, someone has to take the savory food out of each lunch box first, then when it's eaten, take out the sweet stuff? Could it be that someone C*ed up? Bread sticks and cheese are not sweet, so why didn't your son get offered these as his first course too? When you go in all guns blazing, ask them to explain in detail how the food gets doled out.

This is madness! My Mum was telling of her days as a dinnerlady (15 yrs ago!) and the school's stupid policy was the same- she totally flaunted it though! It worries me that dd will have to face any kind of food trauma when she starts next year as I have vivid childhood memories of eating school dinners pleading for a glass of water to drink with my meal (as I always had at home), being refused and then actually biting my cheeks to make the saliva flow so I could swallow what I was eating - crazy!
I get sick and tired of this forced eating pattern we're all supposed to follow - it's hardly working well is it? What with eating disorders and obesity in scary proportions, maybe someone ought to start changing things from nusery up, and maybe they could start with this out-dated policy...?

Dear ScummyMummy,
I am a nurse who aims to be person centred and strive to change outdated policies and practice (and attitudes).This makes it even harder for me I think when I see or hear things at nursery that I am not happy with. I am afraid I would be so upset had this happened to either of my two children. Unfortunately it takes diplomacy in tackling the problem because if you are like me you worry about the effects of you complaining etc. about care it will all have on your children and how staff will view them. This should not be the case and if I ever found it to be I would be deeply appalled. However it does not stop you worrying. I was dropping my two off at nursery this morning and heard one of the nursery nurses snap viciously at a toddler. I was really shocked. (Neither of my two are in that room). I came home and found it hard to get any work done through worry and wondering what happens when parents are not there. Should you say something or not? How do you approach it? I have decided I can't let ti go - what if it had been one of my children and another parent did not say anything? I find it all difficult. I will get to the point! I don't think it is about changing the whole policy for your son it is more about delivering the care that your son needs whilst he is at the nursery. They do not need to change policy, they need to be more realistic than rigid in their approach. If I was you I would approach your son's keyworker tomorrow (if you have not sorted it already) and just discuss what you want for your son and come to some agreement.Definately not overreacting! Definately don't let it go. I've not had this problem myself but have had others. Your kids are the most important issue here.Good luck - and let us know what happens.

Such a long message and I still did not say what I meant to. Isn't it up to all of us as the parents of these children at nursery to help change the practice? I don't think we discuss the care enough sometimes for fear of being seen as an over protective or anxious parent or not having confidence in the staff.I don't know what does everyone else think?