protein and early waking question??

[alibo]

ds, 7 months is waking earlier and earlier, not crying,but when given the bottle, will drink 6oz very quickly. I'm sure he's waking up hungry, but seems satisfied with the milk and solids he's having during the day. His food so far,is:
6-7oz milk 6.30/7 ish
2 teaspoons baby rice +one cube fruit 8ish
7oz milk 11ish, then 5 cubes sweet pot + veg(this week started adding one cube of chicken casserole to replace one veg)
6oz milk 3pmish
7oz milk 6pmish, then 5 teaspoons baby rice + 2 cubes fruit.
This morning he was awake at 5.30am, left him for a while but was obviously not going back to sleep, gave bottle at 6am, which he seemed very hungry for.
Am letting him have milk volumes and amount of solids, till he's had enough, but the waking hungry is getting earlier and earlier. Has anyone found that introducing more protein will result in a better sleep? He has no more than 3 hours total sleep in day, and doesn't go to bed overtired as he still has a short doze at about 5pm. Any idea??

Hi Alibo, my DD's 9 months and we didn't experience any early wakings or problems when we introduced protein. But she did start waking earlier when she was teething. Do you think that maybe your DS's teeth are cutting?

With regards to the amount of food you're giving, I think that's fine. If you're worried that he's not getting enough solids, you can always add another cube of fruit/veg at night and see what happens.

Sorry if that's not much help. Hopefully this will 'bump' your thread for other mom's to help!

Thanks Tayroo, yes he is teething at the moment, has been very unsettled during day, crying after half an hours sleep, and biting down all day long!! Baby nurofen has been helping, but just at the moment, when he wakes early he seems genuinly hungry. Thanks for advice!!

Anybody ?? 5.45 again this morning!!!

Alibo - what time does he go to sleep? All I'm thinking is - if you do think it might be hunger related - why not try and split out his early evening food and milk. So start giving him a proper 'tea' at around 5pm - carry on the rice and fruit if it works for you or move him onto vegetables then followed by fruit and rice. Then you can give him his nighttime milk a bit later after his bath - say at 7:00pm - this then might keep him going a bit longer....

It could also just be a phase - my dd (now 12 months) has gone through several dodgy sleep patterns in her short life. They tend to last a week or so and then things just seem to go back to normal.

Thanks handbagaddiction, will give that a try. Last night he hardly ate any of his baby rice +fruit after his milk, and would only take 5oz milk instead of 7oz. Also didn't want his 3pm feed, and only took 5oz with a bit of persuasion. He is a bit bunged up which seems to have affected his appetite yesterday. Gave him a small dose of lactulose last night, and he did a poo this morning. Last night he woke at 3.30am and ended up feeding him at 4am, but only wanted 4oz, but he went at the bottle as though he was hungry. Up until this last week or so, he has taken 7oz milk and then polished 5-6 teasppons of rice with fruit between 6.15 and 6.45 pm. Then gone down at about 7.15pm. Have not tried the rice as a "tea" yet, as wanted to make sure he had the milk first; we often struggle with his milk feeds. Am now shattered as didn't go back to sleep properly after he was up at 4. Just seems like his appetite and sleep are going backwards?!! Anymore advice welcome!

Yes - I think the problem may no be protein as such, but that baby rice and fruit on their own are not enough. Milk contains protein after all.

I find ds sleeps better when he has a proper tea of veg with potato/rice and a little oil. Sometimes he has a tiny bit of meat too, sometimes he doesn't, but either way he sleeps better than if he just has baby cereal/fruit.

thanks senorapostrophe,; when you say rice and fruit probably not enough on its own, do you give rice and fruit as well as veg and potatoe at tea time?

Alibo - at 7 months old I would ditch the rice. There really isn't any nutition in it IMO. Why not try a breakfast cereal - I did use baby packets for ease I have to say.
I never worked in cubes so can't help you there. I tended either to liquidise a dollop of what we were eating (minus salt) or used a baby food. Again for ease (bad mum). Tended to give 1/2 jar savoury, half jar pudding at that age at luch and tea. I also gave solids before milk feed (breast) in my case. I gave solids at actual meal times ie. 12.30 /1ish for luch. 5-5.30pm for tea. Also gave a biscuit (like rich tea) mid morning and mid afternoon when a bit older. I never gave anything to eat after teatime and just breastfed before going to bed.

Thanks mears, have tried a breakfast cereal for breakfast but he won't take more than a few spoons. Have struggled to find one with no wheat/gluten as avoiding these at the minute as dh has allergies and ashtma, excema etc.

Forgot to mention also, another reason I hadn't changed solids to teatime, rather than after his evening bottle, is because he still needs a nap at about 5pm for half an hour, and gets very tired around this time, so I am unsure about what time to make tea. I know if its too late,ie 5.30 it will probbaly put him off his milk (doesn't take much for him to mess with his milk feeds!!). Or if too early, he won't be hungry enough to take a decent meal, or too early to get him through the night any better? Any more advice on timings welcome as will give this a try today

BTW, have started another thread in sleep section for advice on times for tea, working round late afternoon nap, etc.

Did you start weaning at 6 months? I started earlier so by 7 months my son was eating pretty similar food to us, which is a lot more than yours has, but then mine has always been a hungry baby. At that age he was getting half a weetabix and fruit for breakfast at about 7.30m, at about 12 he would have lunch, by 7 months he was on finger foods.

His evening meal at 5.30pm which was a jar or some of our food, about the equivlent size of a 7 months bought jar. And he had about 3-4 milk feeds a day too. His night time and early wakings were nearly always about food. At about 9 months I upped his volume again (adding a yoghurt of fromage frais to both meals) as he started to wake up at 5ish again after 3 or so months of sleeping through from 7.30-6am ish.

He only started regularly sleeping through the night from 6 months when I introduced protein.

I seem to have been giving him loads more than anyone else here but he was always very active and has never been overweight.

hi jane313, yes we did start at 6 months, as he was nearly 4 weeks prem, and dh has lots of allergies etc. He has never been a hungry baby and for ages was only on 4-5oz bottles. Am trying to introduce more chicken into his veg at lunch, but he doesn't seem keen(I have another thread on this).hv has said not to rush dropping his luchtime milk feed until he is on a substantial solid lunch. Did you still give milk at lunchtime when he was having 4 milk feeds, and when did he start having 3?

I think I gave it first thing, mid am, mid pm and before he went to bed. I think he dropped the mid am one by about 8-9 months as he often had a 2 hour am sleep and forgot about it. It amazing how quick you forget when at the time its all you think about!

ok, this is getting worse!! ds last night woke at 2 am , took 4oz milk, and again at 6am, took another 4oz. Have tried unsucessfully for last few days to give him solids at tea time. He's had his milk at about 3pm, about 5oz. Even by 5pm he just doesn't seem hungry, and has only managed a few mouthfuls of sweet pot and veg. Even that has then put him off his bedtime milk, left it till 7pm, and only takes 5oz instead of usual 7oz. Is then too tired to take some solids after the bottle. He is still only taking a few mouthfuls of food at lunchtime, and will only have a bit of fruit puree for breakfast.
Its getting to the point now where I am getting very frustrated and don't know what to try next. He is shattered fro m the broken nights, and so am I. Can anyone help?

Just in reference to my original post, he is now only taking 4-5oz milk at lunchtime, and then few mouthfuls of solids. Still milk at 3 ish, 5-6oz. Basically is only taking a few mouthfuls of sweet pot at 5pm, and just doesn't seem hungry then. Even this small amount is putting him off bedtime milk, last night only took 5 instead of 7oz at 7pm. I also refusing his fruit and baby rice which he used to have straight after bottle.
Am geting really frustrated now, he is shattered from the broken nights and I am too. Don't know where to go from here?

What a nightmare alibo. I have no real 'advice' but will tell you what my 8 month old is on, I found it very interesting to read yours. We put him on 3 meals pretty early (about 6.5 months having weaned at 5) because he was waking early, but not as early as yours!!

6.30/7ish 1/2 jar creamed organic porridge mixed with 1/2 pot of fruit puree
(tried loads of different breakfasts but this is what he liked).
then 8oz bottle

12.30 lunch - 4 large cubes of lunch, usually something like Annabel K's plaice mix, beef and tomato stew with potato and green veg, or now lentil mix, or scrambled egg. In other words, fairly heavy on the protein. If I'm giving root veg only I usually add some cheese - cottage cheese was popular early.
Then pudding - large dollop of yogurt with more fruit puree, or peeled plums, or Petits Filou. Rice cake if he still seems hungry.

2.30 ish 8oz bottle

6.30 supper - pretty much the same as lunch.

I must say that it was only in the last 3 weeks or so that I dropped him from 5 bottles to 3, I used to give him a bottle after every meal, but he was getting incredibly chubby!

HV seems to think this is OK. There is not too much in the way of allergies in our family so I am lucky there. HTH

oh by the way it didn't seem to be the 3 meals a day that stopped him waking early, but it may have been a factor - his waking just gradually drifted later.

thanks acnebride, when you say 6.30 supper, what does he have to eat, and does he have it before or after bottle. The lack of solids at tea time or after evening bottle, is now obviously making things worse i think.

Hey Alibo - what's the latest on your lo? my ds is now doing what you were describing at the beginning fo sept.

Hi, are you sure he might not be a bit under the weather? My DD started to do the same at about 7mths and she ended up quite ill with a stomach bug, then caught flu then had a bad cold which she still has at 9mths !! So her food and sleep is really mucked up and she is really fussy and doesnt have much apetite. I was really worried at first but now I think as long as she is happy she is doing ok - when she was ill she really wasnt happy. I have also resigned my self to thinking babys just go through stages of waking in the night and waking earlier - instead of racking my brain to work it out. Some babys wolf down food some just dont. Try not to worry, I have worried myself senseless. I read somewhere that as long as they are eating roughly the same amount as the size of their fist at a meal then that is ok.

This is her menu
last night woke at 3 for boob
5-6am - boob

8am - half fruit jar with 2 desert spoons of rice pudding and small piece of toast

12 - half a jar of veg/cauliflower cheese and rest of fruit jar and fromage frais

2pm boob

5.00 - 3oz formlua

5.30 half a jar of veg, half a jar of fruit and a fromage frais

6.30 boob

10.30 boob - went back to doing this in vain atempt to get her to sleep through

oh - and she wont eat any of my food or nursery food, just a selection of 5 jars - nightmare. Roll on fish fingers. Oh by the way by jar I mean 4mth jar - she wont go near any chunks.

Hi, are you sure he might not be a bit under the weather? My DD started to do the same at about 7mths and she ended up quite ill with a stomach bug, then caught flu then had a bad cold which she still has at 9mths !! So her food and sleep is really mucked up and she is really fussy and doesnt have much apetite. I was really worried at first but now I think as long as she is happy she is doing ok - when she was ill she really wasnt happy. I have also resigned my self to thinking babys just go through stages of waking in the night and waking earlier - instead of racking my brain to work it out. Some babys wolf down food some just dont. Try not to worry, I have worried myself senseless. I read somewhere that as long as they are eating roughly the same amount as the size of their fist at a meal then that is ok.

This is her menu
last night woke at 3 for boob
5-6am - boob

8am - half fruit jar with 2 desert spoons of rice pudding and small piece of toast

12 - half a jar of veg/cauliflower cheese and rest of fruit jar and fromage frais

2pm boob

5.00 - 3oz formlua

5.30 half a jar of veg, half a jar of fruit and a fromage frais

6.30 boob

10.30 boob - went back to doing this in vain atempt to get her to sleep through

oh - and she wont eat any of my food or nursery food, just a selection of 5 jars - nightmare. Roll on fish fingers. Oh by the way by jar I mean 4mth jar - she wont go near any chunks.

Hi Alibo. My DS is now 11mths, who slept through the night from 8-10 weeks, and I am trying to remember back to when he was 7mths. I introduced solids at 6mths which was basically baby rice, veg and fruit. At 8mths I introduced the protein options inc chicken, fish, meat and cheese.
I would say looking at your typical day that you are giving too much milk. While milk is still important I think you are filling up your baby with milk so there is less interest in the solids. Also, I read somewhere that when you introduce protein you do this at the lunch meal as this is the meal where you drop the milk feed. By giving milk at the same meal as protein, the milk interferes with efficient absorption.
I agree with the 6.30/7am milk and the breakfast. I wouldn't give the milk at 11-ish, I would give the food first and a drink of water. I would also give pudding, that being fruit. I would give milk at 3pm and then supper at 6pm but without the milk. I would give the milk before bedtime instead.
Maybe you should offer 3 x 7oz? One in the morning, one at 3pm and the other before bed?
Re: baby rice, it is just a filler - would you consider offering half a baby rusk mixed with water or some taken from the 7oz from the morning feed? You could also add mashed banana. I use low sugar gluten free rusks as I am a coeliac.
Have you gone through all the different vegetables yet? And all the fruits?
For pudding I give fruit at lunchtime and 1 petit filous made from follow on milk for pudding at supper time.
I have found that by offering fruit at breakfast and lunchtime pudding and offering yog/fromage frais at suppertime pud, my children generally don't have a dirty nappy first thing. I then give them breakfast and then they both have a dirty nappy. (I hate the thought of them lying from 6am-8am with a poo-ey nappy).What I am trying to say is that you can control what you give them thus dictating when they will be hungry and their waking pattern.
HTH.

Thats an interesting thought Chickpea - what is it that gives them the dirty nappy in the morning - is it the last meal of the day (before bedtime milk)? and if so what should we avoid.
I have noticed that it's sometimes dirty and sometimes not.

Hi TracyK. If I allow kiddies fruit for pudding at every sitting their entire food passes through too quickly. So I limit fruit to breakfast, say 2 slices gluten free bread with butter and 1/2 banana and some melon or grapes and then at lunchtime for pudd I give fruit. If I give fruit for pudd after supper as well, guaranteed they will wake up say 6-ish or 6.30 prob due to the urge to pooh. And I don't want them to have a dirty nappy until they are officially up which is 8am. So if I give fromage frais for pudd at supper time, it's not until after breakfast that they will pooh.
I feel that talking about my childrens' nappy habits is TMI!