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Unpasteurised Yougurt

32 replies

elelulu · 17/05/2004 12:59

Hi everybody,

I would like to give my daughter (16 months) home made yogurt from unpasteurised whole goat's milk.

After a lot of reserch, courses and personal study I came up with the conclusion that pasteurisation is really detrimental. I have started giving her already unpasteurised goat's cheese, but I am still a bit scared about the milk. The subject is really controversial - many people would say that unpasteurised milk is risky because of possible bacterial problems. I have not given her any unpasteurised milk yet, although we drink it ourselves.

I would like to ask anybody if the unpasteurised yogurt would present the same risks as the unpasteurised milk, or if, instead, the yogurt making process would lessen or eliminate the problem (i.e. the friendly bacteria in the yogurt would kill the nasty ones or something like that).

I have done some reseach on the topic and have not found much. I would really appreciate any help.

Thank you

OP posts:
mummytojames · 18/05/2004 00:07

i would realy leave until she was two imo i dont think the good and the bad cancel each other out i think you just get double the amount one of good and one of bad but on the other hand if your giving her goats cheese unpasturised (being made from milk) i dont think that it would cause a problem on this i think i would do the trial and error give her a bit of unpaturised yoghurt and then wait a week before giving her anymore to see how she reacts to it

elelulu · 18/05/2004 11:20

thank you mummytojames.

the unpasteurised chees is not causing any problem, it seems.

This issue is causing lots of doubts to me - on one hand what you read on pasteurised milk and dairy products is quite scary - you would not want to give them to anybody let alone your baby; on the other hand I am still quite worieed about switching to unpasteurised things.

Has anybody out there switchend to unpasteurised milk / yogurt?

OP posts:
aloha · 18/05/2004 19:45

Why are you worried about pasteurised milk? I wouldn't give it to a baby, personally.

aloha · 18/05/2004 20:00

Food poisoning
Food poisoning outbreaks have been associated with both unpasteurised milk and cream, mainly due to salmonella, campylobacter and Escherichia coli O157 (usually referred to as E. coli O157).
Illness associated with these bacteria can have both short and long-term effects.
For example, Escherichia coli O157 is associated with the serious illness known as Haemolytic Uraemic Syndrome (HUS), which is thought to be one of the most common causes of kidney failure in children.
This is from the Food Standards Agency website. I think it is a risk to take with someone very small

Our advice
Any drinking milk and cream made with unpasteurised milk may contain harmful food poisoning bacteria. So it may pose a health risk.
We strongly advise children, pregnant women, older people and those who are unwell or have chronic illness, not to consume unpasteurised milk or cream.

aloha · 18/05/2004 20:02

Although most strains of E. coli are benign, this particular strain of the bacterium produces a toxin which causes severe damage to the cells that line the wall of the intestine. The damage is so severe that not only are water and salts lost, but blood vessels are damaged, and bleeding occurs &mdash even haemorrhaging. Such a condition is particularly dangerous to small children as they are too small to tolerate much blood and fluid loss. In some cases the disease progresses to cause kidney failure and loss of red blood cells, known as &ldquohaemolytic uraemic syndrome&rdquo (HUS); approximately 5%&ndash10% of small children progress to this stage of the disease which in severe cases can cause permanent kidney damage. Victims of HUS are usually treated in an intensive care unit where they receive blood transfusions and kidney dialysis. With intensive care, the death rate for HUS is kept down to 3%&ndash5%. Another 8% of HUS victims will suffer other lifelong complications, such as high blood pressure, seizures, blindness, paralysis, and the effects of having part of their bowel removed. E. coli 0157 VTEC can also be very dangerous to the elderly or infirm causing death in as many as 50% of cases.
The incubation period for infection by E. coli 0157 VTEC before the onset of diarrhoea can range from anything between 1 to 14 days but is normally 3 to 4 days. As few as 100 organisms can cause infection, although the higher the number ingested the quicker the illness will develop, and the greater the amount of toxin that is produced. The symptoms usually clear up in two weeks in &ldquomild&rdquo cases, although the bacteria may be passed in the stools for a further week and even longer in young children. People can also be symptomless carriers of the bacterium. Fatality is often dependent on age but is normally between 1% and 5% of those who contract the infection, although this can be higher in institutional outbreaks &mdash nurseries, infant schools and residential homes.

How is it caught?

E. coli 0157 lives benignly in the intestines of cattle, and so can be spread through contact with farm animals, or consumption of undercooked contaminated meat. Outbreaks have been associated with minced beef, unpasteurised milk, cheese, yoghurt, raw vegetables, unpasteurised apple juice and water. Meat can become contaminated during slaughter, and the bacteria can be mixed into beef when it is minced. Bacteria present on the cow&rsquos udders or on equipment may get into raw milk.

aloha · 18/05/2004 20:04

BTW yoghurt is just as hazardous as raw milk. All the advice is the same - take all the risks you like for yourself, but small children are extremely vulnerable, and even you believe pasteurisation is bad, it doesn't cause fatal blood poisoning.

elliott · 18/05/2004 20:31

I agree with aloha. Would you give your baby untreated water?

Piffleoffagus · 18/05/2004 20:35

there is evidence to show less risk from goats products, than that of cattle, but it has become less reliable over the years
My ds was brought up on home squeezed goats milk and home churned cheese, from cows and goats and sheep. This was in NZ though
All unpastuerised.
But I've not given dd anything unpasteurised yet as she is fien on cows products whereas ds wasn't until age 4..
what are the risks of pasteuristion? I am normally up on food issues but this one passed me totally by!

zebra · 18/05/2004 20:39

I grew up drinking raw milk and would still do so if I could find it... but am forced to agree about raw milk or yogurt not generally being ok for very young children (raw cheese seems less risky to me, or if you can get the milk extremely fresh like from your own goat milked but 10 minutes previously...). Mostly because it's not fair, it's not a risk your child can choose to take. Also, I thought that it was more dangerous to have raw yogurt than raw milk, because the yogurt is deliberately processed in such a way as to promote bacterial growth -- thus, you would expect the yogurt to go off or just have higher concentrations of "bad" as well as "good" bacteria. At least raw milk is handled/treated in such a way as to overall minimise any type of bacterial growth.

Sorry I can't be supportive...

elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:21

we use raw goats milk in the family.

The whole topic is EXTREMELY controversial.

Some sources say that the risks of bacterial infections are higher in pateurised milk that you keep in the fridge for a few days rather than in the unpasteurised one - this because the raw one has got live enzimes in it which are able to fight the bad bacteria, whereas the cooked one does not.

The problem with pasteurisation is that it kills very beneficial enzimes and it makes the milk quite indigestible (and the calcium in it as well). So indigestible that the stomach gets quite acidic to digest it. This increased level of acidicity are couterbalanced by our body using our calcium reserves (which is basic, the opposite from acidic). Therefore, although milk is calcium rich, drinking pasteurised milk (especially cow's) actually depletes our body of calcium.

I know this all may sound quite strange to you all - I have done quite a lot of research on the topic. You can find a lot on it on the web as well.

Unfortunately I still do not dare giving raw milk to my baby - although I found a quite rliable source - it is not riskless and I have grown up in the pasteurisation era so.. difficult to switch (status quo bias I suppose) . But I do not give her pasteurised cow's milk either - I will keep giving her pasteurised goat's milk and switch to the raw one when she is bigger.

FYI - some Steiner school give raw goats milk to their children.

Thanks for your replies

OP posts:
aloha · 18/05/2004 21:25

There is a LOT of evidence that children who don't drink milk (not your child of course, goats milk is calcium rich) have a much higher fracture risk than those who do. I'm afraid I have also done my research and don't buy this stuff about calcium leaching. I personally think you are wise not to give raw milk to a baby. Your own decisions about your health are of course up to you and as an adult of course you are less likely to suffer from food poisoning. Pasteurisation, IMO, is one of the greatest health advances ever.

elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:32

why don't you buy this stuff about calcium leaching?

Apparently reasearches show that countries where milk consumption is elevated have a higher (and ever increasing) ostephorosis than coutries where it is not.

In some cultures (e.g. China) children dink milk from their mothers and then no more from weaning more. They say that milk is for baby cows, not for humans. They do not eat milk products at all. Yet they are quite healthy and far less obesity as well.

I am still quite interested in knowing your reasons - the issue is so controversial that it is very difficult what to believe

OP posts:
elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:34

I also think there is a lot of economic interests involved in all this (the dairy industry is worth millions in all western countries)

OP posts:
elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:44

SHOULD HUMANS DRINK COW'S MILK?

No other animal consumes the milk of another species. Why do humans?
Animals consume their mothers' milk only until their teeth have developed enough for them to eat their food. No animal consumes milk throughout its adult life. Why do humans?
Cow's milk is designed and created for one purpose only: to feed calves NOT HUMANS.
The chemical composition of cow's milk is different from that of human's milk:
The enzymes necessary to break down and digest milk are renin and lactase. They are all but gone by the age of three in most humans.
There is an element in all milk known as casein. There is three hundred times more casein in cow's milk than in human milk. That's for the development of huge bones. Casein coagulates in the stomach and forms large, tough, dense, difficult-to-digest curds that are adapted to the four-stomach digestive apparatus of a cow. Once inside the human system, this thick mass of goo puts a tremendous burden on the body to somehow get rid of it. Unfortunately some of this gooey substance hardens and adheres to the lining of the intestines and prevents the absorption of nutrients into the body. Result: lethargy. Also the by-products of milk digestion leave a great deal of toxic mucus in the body, which is very acidic and harmful to health.
The early development of cows and humans is quite different. When a young calf is born it must quickly build a strong bone structure in order to stand and move about. Cow's milk, richer in protein, minerals and fats than human milk, is designed to promote this. Cow's milk is the most perfect food for a baby calf, who has four stomachs, and who will double its weight in 47 days, and is destined to weigh 300 pounds (136 kg) within a year. During this time, human babies only put on about 16-20 pounds.
The greatest development in young humans, however, is not in bone or muscle but in the nervous system. Human breast milk is therefore rich in easily digestible protein than cow's milk, and is sweeter and more alkaline. Human milk varies in composition during the first few weeks of infancy according to the infant's changing needs. It also transfers a degree of immunity to disease from mother to child. Cow's milk does none of these things.

DAIRY PRODUCTS ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR CALCIUM:

First of all, the calcium in cow's milk is much coarser than in human's milk, and is tied up with the casein. This prevents the calcium from being absorbable.

Second, most milk-drinkers and cheese-eaters consume pasteurised, homogenised, or otherwise processed products. This processing degrades the calcium, making it difficult to digest.

The fact is that:
· all green leafy vegetables contain calcium.
· All nuts (raw) contain calcium.
· Raw sesame seeds contain more calcium than any other food on earth.
· Most fruit contains ample calcium.
· The best sources of calcium are raw sesame seeds; all raw nuts; all leafy greens; and concentrated fruits such as figs, dates and prunes.

THE ROLE OF CALCIUM:

It is important to understand calcium's role in the human body. One of its main functions is to neutralise acid in the system. Many people who think they have a calcium deficiency are on highly acidic diets, so the calcium in their bodies is constantly being usurped to neutralise the acid. ie they are getting plenty of calcium in their diets, but it is constantly used up.

Your body cannot absorb the calcium from dairy products. This calcium is picked up by the blood and deposited in the soft tissues: blood vessels, skin, eyes, joints and internal organs. Calcium combines with fats and cholesterol in the blood vessels to cause hardening of the arteries. The calcium that ends up in the skin causes wrinkling. In the joints it crystallises and forms very painful arthritic deposits. In the eyes it takes the form of cataracts. In the kidneys it forms hard deposits known as kidney stones. The highest incidence of osteoporosis is in countries where dairy products and calcium supplements are consumed in the greatest quantities.

For further information on the link between what you eat and your health checkout the following websites:

www3.islandnet.com/~arton/fruitnet.html

www.livingnutrition.com/fwn/

www.angelfire.com/ia/sniadach/

www.sunfood.net

OP posts:
elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:46

the stuff below was given to me by some researcher.

I have to say - it sounds quite compelling to me.

OP posts:
elelulu · 18/05/2004 21:54

Sorry, some more.

This is on dairy in general - pasteurisation makes it all worse.

HEALTH RISKS OF A DAIRY-BASED DIET:

Cow's milk is high in fats; this results in fatty deposits in arteries, around organs and under the skin. It is also the primary cause of mucus in the lungs, sinuses and ears.

Cow's milk contains:

  • pus from the 40% of cows that suffer from mastitis;
  • bacteria, listeria, salmonella and E-coli have all been found in milk; lethal bacteria, including E. coli 0:157, salmonella and listeria, have all been found in milk, are often responsible for food poisoning incidents in adults and children;
  • antibiotic residues from drugs fed to cattle (to increase growth) that are found in commercial dairy products. These antibiotics are still in active form, and are potentially capable of altering the normal, healthful bacteria in the intestinal tract, or inciting adverse reactions in people allergic to the antibiotic;
  • herbicides and pesticides (hydrocarbons whose chronic ingestion may raise the risk of birth defects or cancer), are sprayed heavily onto feedgrains destined for livestock. These substances are fat-soluble, which means that they accumulate in the fat and milk of dairy cattle, and are commonly found contaminants in milk and other dairy products; the Government's annual survey of pesticide residues in milk has shown an increase in residues of organochlorine pesticide, alleged to interfere with the sex hormone balance and associated with some cancers; a government investigation showed that one pint in 24 contains the pesticide lindane above recommended maximum levels. Lindane is linked to breast cancer and is banned in 14 countries. In two samples of milk the pesticide DDT was detected, even though it has been banned in the UK for over a decade (2.9.96);
  • growth hormones; Insulin -like Growth Factor 1 - is given to cows to increase their milk yield. It has been identified as one of the greatest single risk factors for causing breast cancer;

THREATS TO YOUR SPERM: oestrogen, found in dairy foods, does the opposite of testosterone, shrinking the testicles and lowering the sperm count. Overweight men are especially at risk, as oestrogen is stored in fat.

Cow's milk blocks absorption of iron and zinc, causing anaemia. Cow's milk also causes imbalances in magnesium levels.

Cow's milk protein damages the human immune system. Cow's milk proteins are absorbed into the blood fully undigested. Repeated exposure to these proteins disrupts normal immune function and may eventually lead to disease.

Animal and dairy products can increase potential tumour formation in the breast and uterus. Continued use of dairy products produced from cows' milk provides growth hormone that may increase the growth of cancer cells in reproductive organs.

Nations that consume great amounts of dietary fat per person have the highest mortality rates from breast cancer. Dairy food is very high in fat.

Science News, Vol 136, No 4, p52, 22nd July 1989, reports a study that suggests that women who eat yoghurt and other dairy products may face an increased risk of ovarian cancer that rises with the amount of dairy products consumed. Women who ate yoghurt at least once a month were nearly twice as likely to develop ovarian cancer as women who reported less yoghurt consumption.

The Lancet, 8th July 1989, reported that eating cottage cheese at least once a month also elevated the risk of ovarian cancer.

Harvard University has found evidence that the process of breaking down lactose (milk sugar) into galactose damages the ovaries. Research also indicated that women who consumed dairy products had higher rates of infertility. This effect appeared to be due to ovarian damage from galactose.

The body has a natural alkaline/acid balance, which helps to regulate the normal functioning of the mind and body. Dairy products affect this balance, as they acidify the blood. This affects the brain chemistry, interfering with mental health. This can result in you being hyperactive, always on edge, nervous, depressed, etc.

There are many components in dairy products that are health-damaging substances:

Cow's milk is too highly concentrated in protein and bone building minerals for human consumption. Since cow's milk is too concentrated for the human digestive system, and the wrong chemical composition, it is not digested properly. This is why people who eat meat or dairy products have smelly stools, constant digestive problems, suffer from nasal mucus, obesity, and unhealthy rate of growth. Human milk has 1.1% protein, whereas cow's milk has 3.5% protein. Humans fed cow milk are over eating by a factor of 3. Thus, the fat baby syndrome that is mistaken as a sign of health.

Cow's milk contains 7 times as much of a protein called casein from which casein glue is made. Carpenters use glue in their work. Casein is also the chief constituent of cheese. Casein is also used in making plastics, paints and adhesives.

Cow's milk causes mucus that clogs and irritates the body's entire respiratory system; It coats the mucus membranes and forces everything to transpire in a very sluggish fashion. Huge amounts of mucus from dairy products coat the lungs, causing illness. Dairy products are implicated in all respiratory problems.

The enzyme lactase is necessary for humans to digest cow's milk. Humans don't have this enzyme. This means that if you drink milk you could end up suffering from such symptoms as chronic or occasional diarrhoea, bloating, flatulence, abdominal pains, and in older women, osteoporosis.

Antigenic proteins that, in many people, can "leak" out into the bloodstream through the intestinal lining, and incite allergic reactions in lungs and joints, thereby exacerbating asthma and rheumatoid arthritis. Proteins and other substances in cow's milk can cause intestinal bleeding, leading to anaemia in children.

Intolerance to milk is the commonest of all food allergies. Symptoms include asthma, eczema, skin rashes, chronic nasal and sinus problems, tonsillitis, ulcerative colitis, bowel irregularity, hyperactivity, depression, migraines and some forms of arthritis.

Cow's milk is known to cause gastro/stomach-intestinal bleeding in infants leading to anaemia and there is a proven link between milk consumption and senile cataracts.

Colic, a common manifestation of cow's milk allergy in human infants, is a form of digestive upset affecting many babies. Even in breast-fed infants, toxic cow milk proteins can be transferred to the infant through the mother's milk. Removing dairy products from the mother's diet tends to ease the effect on the child.

About 85% from infants dying from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome are bottle-fed babies. Allergic infants may become sensitised to a milk protein while being fed, and later, while asleep, they may cough up some partially digested milk, inhale it, and go into allergic shock that stops their breathing.

Cow milk seems to be a source of diabetes in children, and insulin dependent diabetes is directly correlated with cow's milk consumption. Researchers from Canada and Finland found that cow's milk was implicated in all the 142 diabetic children they studied: a cow's milk protein, named bovine serum albumin, differs enough from human proteins to cause the human body to produce antibodies which later attack and destroy insulin-producing beta cells in the pancreas. Every one of the 142 children had high levels of the antibodies to the cow protein.

The diabetes that starts in childhood (insulin-dependent diabetes) is a leading cause of blindness, and contributes to heart disease, kidney problems and amputations resulting from poor circulation. Diabetes becomes evident when 80-90% of the insulin-producing beta cells are destroyed.

Cow's milk has the tendency to push iron-rich foods out of the diet. Milk actually causes loss of blood from the intestinal tract, which can eventually reduce the body's stores of the mineral. The bovine albumin produces an immunological reaction that leads to loss of blood.

In England, dairy products account for half of our saturated fat intake, making them a high risk factor in heart disease - our biggest killer.

There is a colossal amount of information linking the consumption of dairy products to heart disease, cancer, arthritis, migraine, headaches, allergies, ear infections, colds, hay fever, asthma, respiratory ailments, etc.

Cheese is a major contributing cause of headaches.

Dairy products are high in cholesterol.

Dairy products aggravate ulcers.
There is a 3 times higher risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 or more times a week compared to women who eat these foods less than once a week.

Diseases linked to excess protein consumption: osteoporosis and kidney failure.

Breast milk is an adequate source of B12 for babies.

Foods high in fats, such as dairy products, have a slowing effect on the healing process. After a fatty meal the blood tends to thicken as blood cells stick together or agglutinate. This decreases the effectiveness of the blood cells that are trying to bring nutrients in for repair and carry away waste products.

Animal protein in particular requires intensive work by the liver and kidneys to detoxify and eliminate the waste products of its metabolism. A back log can easily be created and this is a potent contribution to toxaemia.

Information excerpted from Diet For A New America by John Robbins:

1: Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat butter and cheese 3 times a week compared to women who eat these foods less than once a week: 3 times higher.

2: Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who consume meats, cheese, eggs, and milk daily compared to men who eat these foods sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times higher.

Do not take calcium supplements. They can cause constipation. And they can cause calcium to leak from your bones!

A good book on dangers of consuming dairy produce is:
Milk: The Deadly Poison, by Robert Cohen.

For further information on the link between what you eat and your health checkout the following websites:

www3.islandnet.com/~arton/fruitnet.html

www.livingnutrition.com/fwn/

www.Healthful.LvingIntl.com

www.angelfire.com/ia/sniadach/

OP posts:
samwifewithkid · 19/05/2004 12:45

I do agree with what you have written elelulu. I have thought about this before and what you have quoted makes complete sense to me. Unfortunately we have been brought up in a society that has invented cereals and drinks to mix with milk!! I have tried soya milk products before and they are definately tasting nicer and are vitamin and calcium enriched. Of course this country tries to promote dairy sales as they get a fortune back in money. But I seem to switch back to milk products out of habit. Has anyone tried alternative "milk" products?

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:16

The stuff about mucus is pure myth. A common myth, but a myth. I posted the reference on sophable's thread about 'possible milk allergy'.
It is not true that you cannot absorb calcium from milk, either.
It is also not true that countries that eat no dairy foods do not suffer from osteoporosis. What is true is that there is a reduced incidence of osteoporotic fractures - but this is because a/they don't live as long in general and b/most Asian countries have a culture where squatting is a part of daily life. This is a very effective way to build and maintain muscles in the legs and hips, which maintain balance so these women are less likely to fall over, which is the main cause of bone fractures in the West.

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:18

By Amy Norton

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Children who shun milk and don't get enough calcium-rich substitutes may face an increased risk of breaking a bone, according to a new report.

In a study of 50 children considered "milk avoiders," researchers found that 16 suffered at least one bone fracture by the age of nine. And regardless of whether they broke a bone, these children tended to have inadequate calcium intakes and low bone density, according to the report in the Journal of the American Dietetic Association.

Calcium, along with vitamin D and other nutrients, is essential for building and maintaining strong bones. In the U.S., health officials recommend dairy products as the primary source of calcium, but other sources include fortified soy milk and orange juice, leafy green vegetables and supplements.

The children in this study, however, were not getting calcium-containing milk substitutes, lead author Dr. Ailsa Goulding of the University of Otago in Dunedin, New Zealand, told Reuters Health.

Overall, half of the children did not drink milk because of symptoms such as stomach upset or skin irritation. In other cases, though, the children disliked the taste of milk, or their families simply didn't buy it.

Goulding pointed out that many milk avoiders might "happily" drink soy milk, or be willing and able to consume flavored cow's milk, cheese or yogurt. She advised that parents of children who can't or won't drink milk get help from a health professional to figure out how to best meet their children's needs for calcium, protein and other nutrients.

"The important point," Goulding explained, "is that milk and dairy products do supply very important nutrients to children, and if no substitutions ... are offered, the children who avoid milk may be missing out."

In their report, she and her colleagues also point to the importance of regular exercise, which helps build bone, and getting enough time outdoors to boost the body's synthesis of vitamin D from exposure to sunlight.

Of the 50 children in the study, 16 suffered a total of 22 bone fractures, mostly due to "minor trips or falls incurred during play," according to Goulding's team. The forearm was the most common fracture site, and most of the kids who broke their forearms were overweight.

In fact, nearly half of the milk avoiders 22 were overweight, and the combination of low bone density and high body mass probably contributed to the children's fracture risk, the researchers note. Some past studies have suggested that low-dairy, low-calcium diets are related to heavier body weight.

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:20

Girls would do better to drink milk than take calcium supplements to build bone density, according to new research.
Scientists at Sheffield University asked half a study group of 86 girls, aged 11 and 12, to take a calcium supplement added to fruit juice and got the rest to take fruit juice without any added calcium.
While the girls were taking the supplemented fruit juice, their bone density improved by 1.2%, but two years after treatment, researchers found the bone gain had reversed.

This underlines the need for children and teenagers to take plenty of milk in their diet if they are to build bone strong enough to last a lifetime

Professor Richard Eastell, National Osteoporosis Society This pattern is not observed with calcium obtained from milk, researchers from the National Osteoporosis Society (NOS) concluded.
Researchers believe the gain in bone density among the test-group girls was probably due to a suppression of bone remodelling - the process where old bone tissue is broken down while new bone is built.
Chairman of the NOS Scientific Advisory Group Professor Richard Eastell said: "This underlines the need for children and teenagers to take plenty of milk in their diet if they are to build bone strong enough to last a lifetime.
"Calcium supplements can be used as a substitute if they don't like milk, but it is important they keep taking these, or the effect is lost."
Non dairy diets
Experts think many young girls are not drinking enough milk because they mistakenly believe it leads to weight gain.
They also fear vegan diets and others which eliminate dairy products are behind girls turning away from milk.
A campaign by Animal rights group, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (Peta), which claimed milk was bad for children's health, was recently suspended.

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:21

If you are concerned about fat content and pesticides/antibiotics etc (which I agree can be worrying aspects of all non-organic farming) , why not use low fat organic milk? it is freely available in supermarkets.

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:25

If you are concerned about fat content and pesticides/antibiotics etc (which I agree can be worrying aspects of all non-organic farming) , why not use low fat organic milk? it is freely available in supermarkets.

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:26

And of course, you don't have to drink milk or eat dairy produce to be healthy, but IMO you do have to be careful to get your calcium somewhere. And the best protection for bones seems to be lots of exercise, dammit!

aloha · 19/05/2004 13:43

Re: Milk & cancer - there's evidence that it reduces the risk of bowel cancer & there's this - it is not a black and white picture:

By PAUL BENEDETTI -- Canoe Staff
Breast Cancer Focus
Cdn. Cancer Society

  • Breast Cancer Facts

  • Treatment

  • Incidence Rates

  • Mortality Rates

  • New Cases, Deaths

  • Cancer Chat

Articles and Videos: Women drinking more than three glasses of milk a day had half the risk of breast cancer compared to women who did not drink milk, according to a new Norwegian study.

The study, published in the September issue of the International Journal of Cancer, looked at the childhood and adult milk consumption of 48,844 women in Norway.

The study found that drinking milk during childhood reduced the risk of breast cancer in women aged 34 to 39. It did not have an effect on breast cancer incidence in older women, aged 40 to 49.

The research team at the University of Oslo and the University of Tromso, found that adult women drinking more than three glasses of milk a day had reduced incidence of breast cancer compared to women who did not drink milk.

Even after adjusting for factors such as alcohol consumption, age, body mass index, education and level of physical exercise, the milk drinkers still did better.

Several earlier studies have also noted the protective effect of milk drinking in women, including a Finnish study published in the British Journal of Cancer in 1996. That study, which tracked 4,697 women over 25 years, found that women who consumed the most milk had less than half the risk of breast cancer as women who drank the least amount of milk.

For Helen Bishop MacDonald, director of nutrition for the Dairy Farmers of Canada, the study is another solid piece of evidence supporting the idea that Canadian women should be drinking more milk.

"Women should be doing what Health Canada has recommended for many years - have two to four servings of milk products a day," she said. "This is not encouraging women to have any more than they've already been told they should have."

Scientists think that the protective factor in milk may be conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) that is found in milk fat. "There have been no end of studies showing in animals that CLA is anti-carcinogenic," said MacDonald. She pointed to a recent study in the journal Anticancer Research showing that CLA from milk fat inhibited the growth of human breast cancer cells.

Bishop noted that although milk intake among Canadian women is down, the positive effects of high dietary calcium intake including reduced risk of osteoporosis are clear.

She said the just meeting the Health Canada recommendations for milk product intake would tackle many chronic problems in women.

elelulu · 19/05/2004 14:06

aloha

thanks for your postings.
I agree what you say about calcium supplements - and any supplements really - they are usually not very useful. Our body cannot absorb them effectively.

However my intuiion tells me that cow milk is supposed to be for baby cows. Baby humans are quite different. And the expanation why we cannot absorb the calcium is quite compelling and difficult to argue against.

The study you mention - interesting, but i would say not conclusive (as for any study unfortunaltely) - the sample of children is quite small, most of them overwight, and it does mention the rest of their diet.

As far as mucus is concerned, it is not just milk that produces it, but all the cooked food we eat. I know this may sound even more extreme, but again waht I have read is extremely convincing, not to mention several real life experieces of people who switched to a raw food diet (and milk, being always pasteurised, is not raw). If you do a detox for a while accompanied by a cycle of colonic irrigation you will see what comes out from your intestine - layers of decades old mucus. Not a nice sight a have to say.

OP posts: