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Unpasteurised Yougurt

32 replies

elelulu · 17/05/2004 12:59

Hi everybody,

I would like to give my daughter (16 months) home made yogurt from unpasteurised whole goat's milk.

After a lot of reserch, courses and personal study I came up with the conclusion that pasteurisation is really detrimental. I have started giving her already unpasteurised goat's cheese, but I am still a bit scared about the milk. The subject is really controversial - many people would say that unpasteurised milk is risky because of possible bacterial problems. I have not given her any unpasteurised milk yet, although we drink it ourselves.

I would like to ask anybody if the unpasteurised yogurt would present the same risks as the unpasteurised milk, or if, instead, the yogurt making process would lessen or eliminate the problem (i.e. the friendly bacteria in the yogurt would kill the nasty ones or something like that).

I have done some reseach on the topic and have not found much. I would really appreciate any help.

Thank you

OP posts:
elelulu · 19/05/2004 14:10

I agree - it is NOT a clear picture at all - we are extremely ignorant about nutrition unfortunately. I could tell you about the extremely different ways to wean children across the world... what is taboo in one country is recommended in another

OP posts:
aloha · 19/05/2004 14:13

Well, I agree with you that the best milk for babies is breastmilk. That's unarguable. It's what happens once breastfeeding ends that we have different view on. Mucus is a natural part of our bodies - not an evil. And milk does not cause us to produce mucus.

Calcium is best absorbed with co-factors such as magnesium and vitamin D, but it is absorbed from milk and other dietary sources and is essential for our health - it does more than build bones - it is a vital messenger between nerves and vital to the functions of our whole body. It also seems to be very important for weight control.

My other study also shows that milk calcium does appear to build bones.

aloha · 19/05/2004 14:17

Well, I agree with you that the best milk for babies is breastmilk. That's unarguable. It's what happens once breastfeeding ends that we have different view on. Mucus is a natural part of our bodies - not an evil. And milk does not cause us to produce mucus.

Calcium is best absorbed with co-factors such as magnesium and vitamin D, but it is absorbed from milk and other dietary sources and is essential for our health - it does more than build bones - it is a vital messenger between nerves and vital to the functions of our whole body. It also seems to be very important for weight control.

My other study also shows that milk calcium does appear to build bones.

aloha · 19/05/2004 14:18

Two references which may be of assistance:
Pinnock et al Relationship between milk intake and mucus production in adult volunteers
challenged with rhinovirus-2 american Review of Respiratory Disease 141(2):352-6 1990 Feb

concluded no stastically significant association between milk and dairy product intake and
symptoms of mucus prod'n in healthy adults.
Pinnock and Arney The Milk-Mucus Belief: Sensory Analysis Comparing Cow's Milk and a Soy
Placebo Appetite 1993 20 61-70
Concluded there was no difference between sensory responses after the cow's milk drink and
soy milk placebo.

smonkey · 02/06/2004 13:25

having read the string, you guys all seem to be pretty clued up on the issues at stake here.

one question i have is for aloha. In talking about the food poisoning risks from raw milk products, you use the term WE and cite many potential risks. could you post a link to the research and case histories that back up these statements.

having been head to head with the Environmental Health Department over the raw milk issue, for the last ten years i have got very used to lop sided research comming out of the Min ag&fish. Raw milk is not the only risk from Ecoli or salmonella or especially listeria. Listeria is a ''background" bacteria, and can be isolated from household dust along with everything else in the environment. salmonella is also omnipresent, if you want your child fully protected from these risks bath them in bleach hourly and swab their rooms, don't let them out of their room!!!!! you must keep them sterile.

the counter argument works on the basic Pasteur principal, "if you ingest weak bacteria your immune system can cope with it and learn from it too"

raw milk being 'live' like a yoghurt, contains it's own bio-system, this bio-system competes for living space with other bacteria, as they are engaged in a merry war, when you ingest it the bacterias are exausted and present no problem to your immune system.

If you boil milk and kill eeverything in it you are left with a rich food source for anything passing by, pasteurised milk is like a petri-dish, bacteria loves to grow in it and as the milk is dead, there is nothing to stop or contain the contaminant.

the moment your child touches the earth, let alone starts shoving it into their mouth, they are exposing themselves to massive risk, better to have an active immune system than to avoid the risks.

So in short, avoidance of low level risks, like raw milk cheese or yoghurt, increases overall risks in the general environment.

continued exposure to low level risks strengthens the immune system thus reducing overall environmental risks (playing in the park/garrden).

things like Ecoli are scary, but the Lanark incident what 4 years ago, came down to an unscrupulous butcher selling cheap out of date meat, to an unscrupulous buyer at a granny farm. At the time the edinburgh environmental health department used this as yet another excuse for a witchhunt against unpasteurised cheese.

WHY is the min ag&fsh so enamoured of pasteurisation.

Chemical farming.... in two words. pasteurisation or cooking milk does two things one it 'narrows the flavour spectrum' and two caramelises slightly, making it sweeter.

you can dump any sort of chemical bollocks onto your grass or into your cows, to increase production yields, if you are going to pasteurise it. However if you don't (pasteurise it), it tastes awful. it is very difficult to get raw 'standard production' milk, but if you manage and try a glass, you won't get much further than spitting out the first sip.

As to why the Ministry support industrial over organic farming, well that's a whole topic for i believe another web-site.

Monkey is a bloke
he has a one year old daughter, who so far, has not had food poisoning.
monkey used to run a speciality food shop in edinburgh.

smonkey · 02/06/2004 13:41

Monkey makes an arse of himself on his first day.

aloha - i have reread the bit that says you are quoting the food standards agency.

i have also noticed that the recent is at the top, not the bottom which suddenly makes more sense.

luvs
monkey

elelulu · 16/09/2004 23:13

smonkey - i have not opened this thread for ages. I now read your posting which I read with pleasure and a sense of reassurance. I keep trying to give unpastuerised goats milk to my 20 months old daughter, but she refuses milk altogether.I give her unpasteurised cheese and unpasteurised home-made goats yogurt. I believe in what I am doing but often what you read and hear from governmental agencies and from many people makes you wonder and worry.
thanks

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