MN Food Police - come and be put to good use here!

[Beccarolloveragain]

My sister has a boyfriend, he has a (just turned) 2 year old.

Hard to say this without sounding completely judgemental but IMO the parenting of this child leaves a lot to be desired.

He doesnt sit down to a meal, never has, never has "meals", hasnt attempted cutlery yet, drinks heinz baby juice from a bottle all day long, will only eat sausages or chicken nuggets. Fairly typical days diet is sausages for breakfast Mcdonalds happy meal for lunch and tea (!!!)

My sister is quite a foody and passionate about good nutrition but is also aware that there is a fine line she has to be careful of crossing as it isnt her son.

How could they (the boys dad and my sis) go about making changes to his diet. When presented with new foods he freaks out completely) Very regularly goes a whole day without food.

Sister is very frustrated as they have him Friday until Sunday but then knows that when he goes back he goes back to the bottle swigging, sweetie guzzling, 2 macdonalds a day regime. Can she actually achieve anything when the poor little sod will be getting such mixed messages?

I would actually go as far as saying I wouldnt be suprised if in his WHOLE LIFE he has consumed a piece of fruit or a fresh vegetable.

Any advice on where to start appreciated.

In the time they have been together he has come on leaps and bounds in terms of development and social skills. (dont want to say too much but his mother really is that bad that he was a very very timid little soul who was frightened to speak or do anything really when he first started coming at weekends) It would be great if his nutrition could improve too.

How keen is your sister's boyfriend to introduce his son to a better diet? Is his diet (ie the boyfriend's) any good?
I think the best thing kids can see is their parents/carers/whoever eating decent meals, sitting at a table, with at least some fresh veg, on a regular basis. Then they'll start to see that as normal. But I agree that it's really hard for you when you only have him at weekends. Good on you for trying, though!

Sorry, when they have him at weekends, not you. Blimey, poor brain.

Boyfriends diet is not brilliant - sister has improved it vastly tho! He is now enjoying good ol' home cooking with lots of fresh and good ingredients.

The boyfriend is aware that the boys diet is very poor, (dont think he realises HOW poor though) and has started making changes but its my sister who is itching to jump in and ban the crap and introduce good stuff but just doesnt feel able to.

Would it be fair to practically starve him all weekend if he point blank refused the good stuff?

Having persevered with a very fussy toddler, I would give the following advice in this case.

They could try introducing home-made food that looks like the junk food he is used to - thinking of vegetables mashed up into "burgers", home-made chicken "nuggets" etc. This takes a lot of time and effort but worth it. I would say persevere, even though he may be initially hostile, if he is continually presented with healthy food he will probably get used to it eventually.

Try mixing in healthier stuff gradually, like occasional real diluted fruit juice like apple (which is quite sweet). This could be presented in the Heinz bottle if it helps to get him to try it.

I bought the book "The Art of Hiding Vegetables" which gave a lot of good tips on getting them to eat healthier stuff.

Getting them to help to make the food really does work sometimes(not always). Especially if it is something like carrot cake which they would probably like anyway.

Letting them put together their own sandwiches from a selection of ingredients (include things they can sprinkle which they seem to like).

"Would it be fair to practically starve him all weekend if he point blank refused the good stuff?"

No! If this situation gets turned into a battle, then it would be a disaster, IMO.

I agree with QGM about making things that vaguely resemble the food he does like.

Home-made burgers made with some decent steak mince, with finely chopped onion, and some chopped kidney beans, mushrooms etc.

Home made fries can be done in the oven with a drizzle of olive oil.

Let him eat using his fingers for this kind of food. I wouldn't take on the new food and the cutlery/table manners issues all at once.

I agree with letting him join in with the preparing of meals too, and let him set the table. Maybe get some party-type paper napkins so he can put them out.

Get a big jug of water with lots of ice cubes in, and let him serve it out to everyone at the table.

Thanks for those replies! The ideas about making his junk out of good food are good - I will pass them on!

I must say I thought there would be more replies! Normally the mere mention of a chicken nugget gets everyone talking but not this time in the case of needing some specific help!

Will keep you posted x

don't rush in head first.

give him what he is used to but with something new on the plate as well.

i was told by my Dr that a child will refuse soemthing 15 times before he will even attempt to try it.
its all down to persevearance.

But i would say that if the child is as bad as you say (not just the food aspect) i would be expecting the dad to be pressuring mother for more contact.

I agree with the advice others have already given. I certainly would not starve a 2 year old, it doesn't necessarily work and it could be pretty stressful for him in a less familiar environment.

Fishfingers, chips and ketchup is another one your sister could try (all home-made is she wants). Also pizza.

I think your sister has to have a bit of a heart to heart with her boyfriend as the changes should really come from daddy IYSWIM. It could be disasterous if this little one goes home to mum and says 'daddy's friend is horrid. She makes me eat x,y,z..' I completely see where she is coming from though and I would be pretty horrified at the thought of a child who never eats fruit or veg.

The gradual changes seem a good idea. Its really hard though. My dd has a friend who never eats fruit or veg, will only eat spag bol or chicken nuggets (shop bought) and oven chips. She brings choc spread for lunch and cries if she goes to a friend's house and they put veg or salad on her plate. Her mum is a fantastic cook and a trained caterer and is at her wits end.

Maybe cutting out treats without making a big thing of it, then doing something tiring like going to the park, kicking a ball around for a bit etc., going to the beach will give him more of an appetite and make him more likely to try new things because he is hungry

Good luck to your sister and her boyfriend - its a tough one

BTW, I am not a member of Mumsnet Food Police. My 5 year old has just refused his fish as it had 'touched' the salad on his plate and has eaten potatoes and a tomato for dinner. Hey ho

Can they get him to sit at the table while they eat a healthy meal? With toy cars to play with, or colouring, not food.

Chopped-up tinned peaches (in juice, but they still taste very sweet) and a plastic fork are a fun introduction to both cutlery and fruit. Ds is 21 months, won't use a spoon, but he likes stabbing peaches with his fork.

He could help to put toppings on a pizza too.

I would imagine people might not like being described as "The MN Food Police" Becca - it is a bit insulting to call the people you are asking to help you a rude name.

I would try smoothies made with fruit and milk or yogurt - banana gives a nice sweet base and then you can add fruits like peaches or berries.

Anything you can cook together might take his fancy - stirring up cakes or biscuits which you could make with healthy ingredients - dried fruit, wholemeal flour etc.

And colourful veggies such as red pepper, baby sweetcorn, broccoli florets, carrot sticks etc can appeal to children this age with somethinfg tasty to dip into - something like sour cream or 1000 island is not exactly a health food but if it gets him to enjoy playing with and tasting vegetables then I think it would be worthwhile.

He might also enjoy food where you get to play with it and put the meal together - like wraps with different fillings to choose and then rool up.

I don't think they can make huge changes in this situation and I certainly don't think they should starve him or get into a battle about it, but a playful and creative approach to meal times and cooking could broaden his repertoire and eventually help him to enjoy a wider range of foods.

Not a fully paid up member of the Food police . I have a fussy toddler and to be honest sometimes I am grateful if she will eat anything.

I think with fussiness the key is to keep food separate, bland and looking very familiar. It could be that his mum is at her wits end and has settled on him eating rubbish rather than nothing.

Some puddings can be reasonably filling, nutritious as well as easy to get them to eat. I am thinking of rice pudding, yoghurt, apple crumble and custard, even ice cream can be okay for a child who won't eat much else.

Drinks such as home-made flavoured milk or milkshake can be used if they won't take water or milk on their own.

Another gambit is to do roasted vegetables, even glazed with a bit of honey to make them sweeter.

Pasta with a bland home-made cheese sauce and vegetables might be okay, and home-made pizza as someone suggested, especially if he has helped to put ingredients on that he likes.

All these things are trial and error until you start to hit upon something they will try and like.

If he won't eat for example normal meat with a meal, you could try letting him taste little bits of meat while the rest is being cooked (say a roast dinner). This is when he is hungrier and can be presented as a special treat (eg do you want to have this little tiny bit now before dinner?) This is a good way of getting them to eat protein.

I managed to re-introduce meat after a long while of it being rejected, by giving dd the bone from a leg of lamb with tiny bits of meat left on. She happily ate the meat off the bone, because I made a joke of it and said "Children don't eat bones, dogs eat bones." After the laughter died down, she nibbled little bits of meat.

God I try hard!

Im a bit flabbergasted anyone has taken offence at my title - I apologise for that if thats the case but I see it as a bit of an endearing term.

I started the thread on that note in light of the many threads on here over the last few days and thought Id direct those people here so I could benefit from their expertise!

The mother really is that bad - its not that she is at her wits end. I find it hard to have anything nice to say about her - I know her way more than my sister as my sisters boyfriend is actually my husbands best friend so although this is a new relationship for her I have known the mother for quite a while.

She is awful - when little one was a baby her attitude to weaning was stuff it in (jars) because it was a job to do. No joy was taken in feeding him and I witnessed her kicking the highchair across the room in temper when he wouldnt eat.

TBH I have considered calling SS before but Im happier now as they have split up and boyfriend takes a very active role in his life - he has him currently about 4 days a week with visits in between.

This girl has been known to charge boyfriend by the hour for looking after their son.

Sorry, I am waffling - have had a few to drink.

He is doing so well already and its really heartwarming to see him coming out of his shell and beginning to realise his potential as a gorgeous, bright little boy.

My sis threw a birthday party for him last weekend (mother chose not to see him on his birthday nor bought him a card or a present) and his little face when he had a cake and happy birthday was priceless.

Needless to say he didnt touch any of the cake or any of the home made goodies on the party table but he had a wonderful time.

I will pass these ideas on to sis - I agree that it has to come from him and not her - she is very aware of this but I think they are almost there in terms of the boyfriend deciding to take some drastic action.

This little boy sounds lucky to have your sister (and you!) looking out for him.

One thing I used to do as a treat was to make some veggie burgers, tomato, cheese, wholemeal roll and some potato wedges, wrap them in kitchen towel and put in a plastic bag as a kind of happy meal and then give them a paper hat to wear!

Hmm - when I come to think of it maybe I was trying a bit too hard!

oh and food on sticks - bizarrly my children love food on sticks - even now (7 & 4)

Baby beetroot, cucumber, cheese chunks, cherry toms etc etc etc - on a cocktail stick!

Not rocket science, but am yet to be rumbled that I am just getting them to eat their veggies!

It sounds to me as if there are more complicated issues here than food, and they may have to tread carefully

If he genuinely won't try any home-cooked food or even cake, and is regularly starving himself, this sounds more like an attention issue, especially bearing in mind your other comments about the mother. He could even have developed a phobia of certain foods, and the priority has to be making sure he does eat something. Some of the choices at McDonalds are better than others, and although it sounds like a terrible diet for a toddler, some food of any sort is better than none. They could start to get him eating the fruit bags at McDs, or the carrot sticks, and then these could be made at home. This could be a way of gently introducing other fruit and veg.

I would suspect that this is going to take patience, understanding and time. Other tactics for gradually introducing foods that he won't taste:

The key is to make the tasting of different foods as relaxed and unthreatening as possible. It may be that the reason he will only eat Mcdonalds is that he has an association with his mum being happy and relaxed there(?). My belief (based on dd1, not a pyschologist) is that food faddiness is some kind of natural wariness of food which we have inbuilt as a survival instinct. In some cases, this natural wariness of unusual food goes too far and actually makes eating scary for the child, which in turn leads to an "issue". We don't know whether his mum has shouted at him for not eating etc. based on throwing the highchair across the room, eating may not have been a v pleasant experience for him.

They could try taking him out for different food other than McDonalds, just to introduce variety. Even taking him out for a different kind of burger might help him to vary his tastes a bit. I think this is going to be tough.

Finally, I would be tempted to introduce a reward system for him trying/eating new foods, good behaviour and eg sitting at the table nicely. It should be heavily geared towards positive reinforcement of good behaviours, with bad ones initially being ignored. I have a chart with each day of the week and each meal. There are written rules which are repeated at the start of each meal eg Tried a bit of everything. Ate nicely and quickly. If these rules are met, she gets a smiley face on the chart. But I would stress that they need to tread very carefully. He already has food issues, and I would not want to exacerbate them. It might be an idea to wait before the reward system.

Good luck.

Sorry becca I did find it insulting - I see now it wasn't meant that way, but the term Food Police has been used to beat those of us into healthy eating around the head rather a lot lately

I would liken it to saying "Intolerant Breastfeeding Nazis - come here and help me feed my baby" - it could be a joke, but some of us are feeling a bit sore

I hope the ideas and suggestions on here are useful for your sister, anyway

Becca, I wasn't insulted by the title (but think it's fine for other people to be, if they were they were, she says, treading carefully!) and consider myself a fully paid up member of the food police

Poor, poor boy. I agree about having to be careful, I agree about your sister talking to her boyf and I agree, the poor child absolutely shouldn't be starved. An aside but is the mother depressed? It sounds really awful, her total lack of interest. Or is it that she knows not what she does?

Anyway, that aside I agree with all the advice here and would add:

bits and pieces on a plate used to go down well in my house, a mixture of fruit and tiny sandwiches and stuff

making sure he sees his father and your sister eating other stuff and being offered it but not forced

smoothies are a great idea

good quality ice cream could be nutritious

I wouldn't worry about cutlery or sitting down or manners although they could sit down and invite him to join them, they do like being included at that age ime

I'm not insulted, (I love the epithet 'food police'!)but neither am I one to indulge or pander.

I presume your sister cooks and prepares good food anyway?

Well,in that case she should just continue to do so.

IOf he doesn't want it,don't offer him anything else.

Lifeis too too short to be pissing around offering kids stuff on cocktail sticks.

What next? Waiting on staff??

Cannot believe there is actually a book called 'The Art of Hiding Vegetables'

Fuck me!!!

"Fuck me!!!"

Moondog I think you may have misunderstood where the vegetables are to be hidden

Message withdrawn

Franny, I am sorry. Feel really embarassed about my clumsy term in the title! I think the "food police" are great but yes, looking at it now its no wonder you were offended.

Im not sure about the mother being depressed, maybe she is - she will tell anyone that will listen that she regrets having kids. Addresses them as "little shits" etc etc. My husband has often commented when he has been in her company that she never plays, talks to them or shows them any affection. She has another child from a previous relationship and she is a really meak little thing too. Boyfriend used to set a trap on the gate to check when he came in from work if she had taken her to school as she often wouldnt

Boyfriend finds it very, very distressing because sometimes when they were together she just refused to get up and would let the toddler wander round the house.

When they put him to bed he just lies there silently for up to 2 hours and the same when he wakes up. For example they put him in his cot at 7pm and you can go back in at 9pm and he is still awake but will not call out, just lies there. I cant help but think that this is because his calls arent usually answered at home.

He was so, so timid and wary of strangers when we first met him but he is really coming in. I have been teaching him his animal sounds, body parts and little songs and he is really thriving on some positive attention.

My sister has already adopted some of these ideas on her own. - For example he will eat sausages (normally from the chip shop) but she has bought him some really good quality ones from our local farm shop and chops them up and he seems to be starting to accept this.

Another problem is that he never has meals at the table - poor boy normally has his meals from a box in his car seat.

Sister has bought him some bright thomas the tank cutlery and plates etc to try and encourage him to sit at the table.

Poor boy.