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Microwaves - are they bad

37 replies

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 14:32

HI all

Am I the only mum who doesn't heat her babies food or bottle in the Microwave - I think I must be.

For some reason I think they are really bad (don't know why). I know why they say you shouldn't heat milk etc because of hot spots but my fears aren't about this but about whether they are actually good. The thought of how they manage to heat food so quickly frightens me and I've always thought they are bad for you.

Can anyone reassure me and tell me I'm wrong and why I have these fears ?

OP posts:
bettys · 24/04/2002 14:48

Hi Tillysmummy, we don't have a microwave at all, much to the horror of friends in my ante-natal group who couldn't understand how we cope without one. We haven't done any research, just a general feeling that microwaves can't do food much good. However it has been mentioned on a thread before,by Pupuce I think who gave some links. Try putting 'microwave research' in on the search board

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 15:06

Thanks Bettys. I didn't realise it had been discussed before. My fears were confirmed not that I've ever used it (except once) for DD's bottle. Will never touch again in fact think I may get rid of it

OP posts:
Croppy · 24/04/2002 15:29

I looked at the sites quoted at the time. The only claim to have any substance is the suggestion that babies bottles should not be heated this way because they have hot spots - could this possibly be why we shake drinks after they are microwaved?????????

The rest of the articles are all eerily similar and their claim to science is laughable. Tillys mummy, if this sort of so called research confirms your fears, you'd better stay off the internet as you will find similar claims concerning just about everything you eat, drink, wear etc etc on it if you look hard enough.

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 15:36

Croppy, I have always felt that for something to heat food that fast there must be something unnatural. There isn't enough research into them and what they may or may not cause yet but I don't feel happy using one. Each to their own. I know there are similiar claims with everything and being an ex smoker I know that that was very bad for me. Everything in moderation. But I do not believe that they are a necessity (although unfortunately now they seem to be to a lot of people) and when I see what they do to bread and what that turns into after a few minutes it frightens the life out of me !

OP posts:
Croppy · 24/04/2002 15:47

Sorry I just can't bear to think of mums worrying that they are potentially damaging their children by heating food in a microwave. If anybody is tempted to look at these sites, please also type the words "microwave + safety" into Google. This will lead you to a number of sites where the safety factors are explained clearly, concisely and most important rationally.

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 15:53

That's ok and I agree it is important to be rational but at the same time I think it is still very unchartered territory and that's what makes me nervous. There isn't enough evidence yet to prove it's safe or dangerous and if there is not conclusive evidence that it isn't dangerous then it concerns me.

OP posts:
Croppy · 24/04/2002 15:56

While it may seem unnatural so does the fact that a Jumbo Jet can fly. There is a perfectly logical scientific explanation freely available as to how microwaves are able to heat food faster than conventional cooking just as there is to explain how a jumbo takes off.

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 16:02

I don't like flying either

OP posts:
Croppy · 24/04/2002 16:02

Microwave ovens have been around for more than 40 years and there has been a lot of scientific studies into their safety. Not surprising for something that is in something like 82% of American homes.

Tillysmummy · 24/04/2002 16:08

That still doesn't mean they are safe. I don't believe people can know the long term effects yet of what they may or may not do.

OP posts:
pupuce · 24/04/2002 16:19

Americans all eat GM food.... does that make it safe ?

bundle · 24/04/2002 16:28

I wish I had a microwave! maybe I'm the only mum without one...

Croppy · 24/04/2002 16:32

No and nor does it make then necessarily dangerous. I really don't this is the right forum to discuss these types of issues. As I said, I just get very upset at the thought of mothers being frightened into thinking they are damaging their children. I wouldn't have normally bothered commenting but I couldn't believe the quality of the sources quoted back in February

bettys · 24/04/2002 16:33

Why use a microwave? Isn't it better to cook something fresh than heat something up? If it's a question of speed there are loads of things that only take three minutes that have to be better for you eg eggs, noodles, fresh pasta etc etc

fairy · 24/04/2002 16:44

I think I'll have a stab at this!

On a different thread i asked for recommendations for a new microwave, so i'm all for them, but I don't use them that much.

I use it for sterilising bottles and equipment, warming babies food, not in the jar, all homemade and out of the freezer. I don't warm milk in it as ds is breastfed, and for the rest of the family its used for beans and soup etc, not huge meals.

I'm not worried about the effects, though at school I saw what they do to toilet rolls and golf balls!!!! I thinkl they are a useful tool to use in the kitchen, bit like an electric whisk - quick, easy and less bother.

If I'm wrong in other peoples eyes thats fine, but if I can save some time and washing up thats just brill!

Croppy · 24/04/2002 16:54

Well there is absolutely no valid evidence to suggest that microwaved food is bad for you (a cursory examination will show that Norma Levitt, and the Swiss Association of Dealers for Electroapparatuses (!!!) do not exist outside of a collection of Internet sites (shame cos the microwaved blood for the transfusion story is really funny)).

On this basis, given that normal ovens require pre heating, a change of container, that microwaves are very quick and can get things to the exact temperature you want and are useful for defrosting certain foods they are just very handy. Actually I only use mine to cook things like spinach which it does beautifully.

Fairy, I have a Sanyo which I am very pleased with but as I say, I really don't use it that much.

bettys · 24/04/2002 17:02

Fair enough!

fairy · 24/04/2002 17:03

I forgot to say something in reply to Bettys point, how many 5 month old babies eat what you mention, and how long does it take to prepare a fresh carrot into a smooth puree?!?

This is what I'm saying, we use it for re-heating stuff which I've already prepared, I'm not against eating fesh food, far from it.

aloha · 24/04/2002 21:26

Totally agree. I make a lot of fresh food in one go (or puree the family dinner minus salt), freeze it then defrost and heat in the microwave - otherwise it would be all jars for me!

JJ · 24/04/2002 21:37

Once again, all you never wanted to know and more:

Microwaves are electromagnetic waves, as are radio waves, infrared waves and visible light. The difference between all of those types of waves is simply their energy. In the examples listed, radio waves have the lowest energy, microwaves the next lowest, infrared after that and visible light has the highest energy. Not exactly what you'd expect, I know!

Why aren't things cooked by visible light? The reason is that very little of the light interacts with the objects we see and it's lucky for us, as our eyes are made for viewing the light which is reflected. The colour black absorbs the most light and white reflects all colours (ie energies), as you probably have learned at a young age walking with barefeet quickly across a blacktop road to the cool white cement of the pavement.

Radio waves, the lowest energy waves of the four, are all around us. They don't interact with anything in us and we don't reflect them. The waves pass right through us.

Infrared waves are what you might think of as "heat" waves. They interact with us, they heat us up. The sun heats the earth this way. A fireplace warms two cozy people (or, in this discussion, one cozy person and one too-warm harried person chasing a much younger person away from the infrared source so as to prevent a trip to the burn unit) this way. Infrared radiation is absorbed by almost everything and, therefore, heats almost everything up!

The microwaves our microwave ovens produce, in contrast, can interact with water, fats and sugar. They are not completely absorbed by them and the majority of the waves pass through the food without interaction. Those that do get absorbed heat up the food by heating up the water, fats and sugar.

The hots spots are caused by the unabsorbed microwaves bouncing around the inside of the oven. (The metal "cage" keeps the microwaves in by reflecting them back into the oven, just like a mirror reflects visible light. It's not necessary to have a solid cage to keep all microwaves inside. The reason for this requires a slightly more technical discussion, but if you're interested... ) Back to the hot spots! We've got our unabsorbed microwaves bouncing around, right? Microwaves are waves and can interfere with each other just like waves of water. Have you ever scooched back and forth in a bathtub to make a tidal wave? It takes a few times to get the wave up to a decent size. That's constructive interference-- you're constructively interfering with each wave to make the next one bigger than the last. Same analogy, but with second thoughts. Have you ever, at the last minute, decided that you didn't want a load of water on the floor? What did you do? Probably wait for a second and then make a wave against the oncoming wave. Everything slowed down (hopefully it was enough!). There you go, destructive interference, you just stopped a wave with another wave. Same thing in a microwave, except that it's the reflections off of the sides and the source making the waves. Some constructively interfere and give hot spots and some destructively interfere to give cold spots.

Regarding leakage from microwaves: microwave radiation interacts with water, we're all made with loads of water, so you'd know it if there was any leaking! Also, microwaves have absolutely nothing to do with nuclear radiation, unless it's in the very indirect sense - if the electricity powering your microwave comes from a nuclear plant.

Umm, I'm open to any questions if anyone has read this far. And has a question, I guess.

MalmoMum · 24/04/2002 21:54

Thank God for your input JJ. I was going to ask my mother if she still had my A level physics books (not my hottest subject ever and well rusted). So nice to see a clear explanation.

It's nice to have a myriad of cooking options to hand. I boil, fry, bake, roast, poach and use the microwave. Main use nowadays is reheating my cup of tea to the piping hot level I enjoy.

Demented · 24/04/2002 22:11

Wow JJ, no questions but I suddenly feel very dim! Have been avoiding all anti-microwave sites as although I don't use my microwave much, just warming milk, heating ready meals and when DS was younger defrosting and heating his purees it has now become one of these things I can't live without. In fact I used to make alot of his purees in the microwave as I had heard this preserved more vitamins than conventional cooking and decided I couldn't live with the guilt trip of finding out I had microwaving his blood or whatever. Your explaination sounds much more reasonable!!!

Bozza · 24/04/2002 22:12

I do agree with Fairy that the microwave has given me the chance to wean my DS on home cooked food. Although I have worked 3 days a week since DS was 15 weeks and therefore my time is a bit limited DS has never had anything from a jar. Also when first weaning and DS would only eat maybe a quarter of that pureed carrot - freezing and reheating prevented waste. Don't use it for much else although sometimes I will cook a potato in it for DS and then scoop out the middle.

Tinker · 24/04/2002 22:18

JJ - thanks for all the info.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist on microwaves, use mine all the time so this is a genuine question

Wasn't some of the "concern" about microwaves that they continued to cook the food after it had been removed from the oven and that very hot food, when eaten, could be dangerous? Remember reading that burnt, charcoaled food is bad and that some advocate that we should only be eating cold food. But I don't know if any of this is true or correct - and I certainly don't adhere to it!

JJ · 24/04/2002 22:58

Tinker, nope, no problem. This is much better than, say, cleaning the toys up in the oh so messy reception room.

Re: microwaves cooking the food after it's been taken out of the oven. Foods will continue to cook after being pulled out, but not by microwaves. This has to do with the hot spots and cold spots. Heat will transfer from a hotter object to a cooler object when they are in contact. So the hot spots will cook or begin to heat up the cold spots (this process, incidentally, is known as conduction). The hot spots can get really hot! When I microwave I usually give the food a rest for a minute or so if I can't give it a stir, just to let the heat even out throughout the food.

Re: hot foods. I don't know about very hot food, except the obvious it-can-burn-you type thing. Microwaves can superheat liquids (eg water), so you have to be careful about that. You don't want to get boiling water all over your hand! But the food isn't dangerous after it's cooled down to a reasonable temperature.

Re: yummy charcoaled bits. The carcinogenic charcoaled bits are the best part of any barbecue, I think! Truthfully, I don't know anything about them either. You're much less likely to get them in a microwave as it generally cooks a piece of food all at once. There's no making a nice, seared on the outside, bloody on the inside piece of lamb in a microwave.

Re: cold food. A botany teacher I once had was a big proponent of the whole natural, uncooked diet. He believed that any cooking killed natural somethings in the food. Again, I've no idea! He looked young and energetic for an old guy, although he had an unhealthy obsession with David Attenborough.

At any rate, the last three concerns you mentioned would relate to any form of cooking. The first is a quirk of the process.

I do think microwaving vegetables preserves more vitamins than boiling them senseless. Some vitamins are water soluble and will leech into the water used to cook them. That having been said, I rarely cook veggies in the microwave as I can't pop one out every now and then to see if it's done yet.