Is organic worth it?

[hercules]

well?

tia

IMO......no!

I think in order for it to be effective then everything has to be ORG and it is SO expensive. You need to have ORG meat, fruit, veg, fish, cakes, bisc etc etc

Some will say it is worth it but I couldnt afford it!!

No, could afford the fruit and veg, poss meat but noy all stuff all the time.

In terms of food you put in your body or for the environment?

In terms of food, I'd say no, it's not worth it. As long as you're not buying massively factory farmed chicken (which to me implies bad processing egg to supermarket - so more chance of ucky bugs) or stuff like that, I think it's all the same. You wouldn't want to eat organic fertilizer (cow manure) or chemical fertilzer -- so in those terms they're equal. I think some organic food tastes better, but that's about it.

In terms of the environment, well, it's better than relying solely on pesticides/chemical fertilizers/etc to make food grow. Sole use of those things deplete the soil and make their use necessary. Also, large farms cut down on the diversity of food available. BUT I don't think it's economically sustainable -- here in Switzerland, many farms use integrated production, which means judicious use of chemicals. And not all are horrid things.

Sooo, I tend to buy IP products from local farms. I think buying an organic strawberry flown in from Chile has a worse impact on the environment than the strawberry grown with chemicals that I buy 10 steps from where it was picked. Buying locally from small farms is really important to me.. I think it helps not only the environment, but the community and the farmers themselves. And me!

(ok, I'm off my soap box now!)

I've heard it's worth getting certain organic foods, foods such as milk & eggs that tend to be laden with hormones & antibiotics in mainstream farming. I tend to buy organic meat now for the same reason. But a lot of so-called organic foodslike biscuits or onionsseem to me a great rip off.

One way to look at is.. If buying all-organic would mean you bought and ate less f+veg over all, I strongly suspect that it would be healthier for you to buy all non-organic.

I reason that environmental toxins (pesticides, or other bad stuff) tend to concentrate up the food chain, esp. in the fatty tissues of the body, or in fats of milk products. So we usually buy organic butter (we eat a lot of butter), some organic meat (we don't eat much meat, but would want free-range and locally sourced for other reasons), and any other items with milk-fat in them when convenient... Could buy organic olive oil, I guess, but am fairly sure that olive trees have very low fertiliser/pesticide inputs, anyway. Also, as an occasional treat, organic orange juice because it tastes fantastic! I'd like to buy all organic for environmental reasons, but it feels like too much of a luxury for us, so really I just get stuff like organic fruit+veg occasionally.

Apparently here in Norwich we have the only full-time market stall in the country selling all organic f+veg, and it is dear if we do our usual f+veg shop there. Put it this way, we spent £14 buying our usual (all non-organic) weekly lot of f+veg on the market, today.

I take opposite view from Collision, and also reason that if buying just some organic means we halve our intake of the pesticides/etc., that is a good/valuable risk reduction.

I'm with Zebra, I cant afford all organic so choose carefully. I buy nearly all animal products from organic ranges (eggs, meat and milk) as I shudder to think of the cr*p put into non-organic animal products. I also try to buy veg that is grown close to the soil from organic ranges (potatoes, mushrooms). I also try to avoid processed food as that is also full of rubbish. My ds has alot of allergies and suffers badly from eczema so I hope that by giving him the purest food possible, I am helping to keep him well. Having said that, ds will choose MacDonalds over anything I produce given half a chance.

i find the biggest diference between organic and non organic is the price the problem we get at the moment is in f+veg you can get totaly organic unless you grow it yourself because under the law for organic foods is that only certain chemials are alowed to be used and only in certain amounts plus you get the problem if one farmer does organic but the farm next to him dont when that farmer is spraying his crops the wind will carry some of it over to the organic farm but i do agree where possible to support small farms we have a cattle market where we live where the farmers take there f+veg to sell on a sunday apart from being a hell of alot cheaper than the super markets it alot fresher to because they pick on the friday sell on the saturday sunday and monday so we know they havent been sitting around on a shelf for who knows how long plus if we want a drive theres a farm who sells the goods right by his farm imo anyway

For the first year of DS's life I'm feeding him all organic food, either homemade or in jars. I'm doing this because although I don't belive non-organic food is harmful, I just feel better about knowing I am absolutely, unequivocally giving him the best chance of having the purest, most natural food for the year in his life when his body grows the most. Of course it IS more expensive, but I really don't care as it's such small amounts. DH and I only eat minimal organic food e.g. milk, bread, sauces, anyway - there's no way we could afford to all eat organic.

I do not obsess and fret if DS has non-org stuff too (e.g. he has cow and gate savoury biscuits), I just like to aim for most of it, in particular with dairy and meat. I don't know if it is healthier cos there's so much people say either way, but it's certainly not going to be worse for you than non-org stuff so it's worth doing for the first year at least.

hear what everyone is saying about the expense, but this will only go down the more people buy organic food. also read somewhere (might have been in dreaded gf book) that organic milk is made from cows that eat grass as opposed to feed supplemented with animal offal which is not easily digestible. therefore non-organic milk is 30% more mucus producing that organic...i think meat and dairy prods/eggs have got to be a good idea when you consider the amount of anti-biotics and growth stimulators they pump into cheap meat. having said that agree that buying locally may mean that altho not strictly organic, chemicals have been used judiciously. having said all of that (phew) all our organic produce buying counts for nothing when we get a curry (who knows where the meat comes from then!!!) or eat out...

Message withdrawn

We live in London and have organic boxes delivered - started doing this for much the same reasons as Celandine went organic. Although the boxes aren't cheap, they do tend to last the whole week, and one side effect which surprised us was that our total food bill dropped considerably. We're not big meat eaters and our milkman delivers organic milk, so we go to the supermarket much less frequently - don't get so tempted by buying a load of stuff each time which wasn't already on our list - god knows what we used to fill the trolley with! So for us it's ended up being worth it financially too.

which company crumpet?

Sophable we use Abel & Cole. They have a good website, and on the whole we've had good quality stuff. They also do meat/fish & other stuff which we've not used except for getting our turkey from them at Christmas - which was great.

thanks crumpet

I try to buy organic, were possible but it is hard to source decent products where I live and I'm not too sure if I fully trust the main supermarkets organic brandings, are they just jumping on the band wagon?
Also cost is an issue so I try to balance it with non -organic so we don't just eat less f+v or milk although if money were no object then I think I would buy only organic or fairtrade goods. Certainly if we ate meat I would only buy organic meat or if there becomes more of an issue with regard to GM foods

Well I buy quite a lot of organic stuff - partly because I believe it's healthier and partly because it's better for the environment. However I will not buy organic food from far off countries. Some things I also don't buy organic because of cost. There are no box schemes round here so we rely on Tesco. I think we can their own brand stuff because it's a regulated by the soil association.

Stuff I buy which is organic:
milk (due to the mucus reasons someone else pointed out)
butter (tastes nicer)
eggs (don't use loads so the cost is not that much more)
yoghurts (yeo valley - are really nice and packaging easier to recycle)
carrots
potatoes (although the pre-packed bags are too big)
bagged salad (the tesco organic baby leaf salad is v good value and contains lovely peppery rocket)

we don't get organic apples as I only like Cox's and all Tesco organic applies are from USA or NZ. Also bananas as we get fair trade instead (same for tea although coffee is FT and organic). Other veg generally not as the food miles are too great.

two things I've found when attempting to shop organically:

1. I tend to use fruit and veg more when I might have chucked it before. e.g. sprouting potatoes or hairy carrots go in a stew. It's almost like it reminds me not to waste food.
2. you often get great bargains in the super market. i got an organic chicken in Tesco for £4.50 (organic poultry has to be free range) and 400g of organic strawberries (from spain so not too bad) for £1.50. Chicken went straight in the freezer and so did the strawberries - as ice cream...

We buy pretty much only organic stuff and I take organic food in to nursery for our 7 month old son.

We do not have a high income at all. Our mortgage pretty much wipes us out. Our average income combined is less than the national average and the there's childcare...

We buy organic because of the environmental impact of non-organic food. This serviously worries me. Did anyone else see the Observer article saing that the Pentagon had warned Bush that the environment could survive only another 20 years? The thought that my son will only make it to 20 keeps me awake at night. We grow as much of our own food as we can, use Ecover (or better still, "magic-cloths", buy at farmers markets, etc.

We never go to expensive restaurants, do not use babysitters (yet) etc (no idelogical objection, just can't afford them), I don't drink and my partner doesn't drink much, mainly because of the cost.

For us, food is such a basic and necessary thing that you have to get it right. Its not where you save money, unless you have to. Its not just about eating organic food, its about bringing our kids up to know how to cook, eating seasonal produce etc.
I think we can afford it because we don't eat meat or fish, and eat very little processed food-we generally cook everything from scratch or freeze in advance. Our food bill last week was £30 total, for 3 of us, including new (non-organic!) socks for the bub. We have a fantastic farmers market in Cardiff, which helps. We don't eat unseasonal food from far away-we can't afford it

I sound very smug, sorry. We have to work really hard to do this and only do because its so important to us. We knit the occasional yoghurt as well.

Our lifestyle may look boring to others, especially non-vegetarians who don't like cooking. I'm just saying, I think a lot more people could afford only organic food, if that was their priority.

Having said that I help people claim benefit for a living. I would not dream of suggesting that most of my clients could afford organic food. If mass production of food gives the poorest people in Britain a better diet, is it worth it? My head starts hurting but I think the answer is yes.

mergle - which farmers market? Last time I went (I live near cardiff) it was once a month and just sold ostrich steak and chutneys.

We have a similar experience to mergle, but I decadently enjoy using babysitters, eating out, and drinking now and then. I don't actually need to be so stingy these days, because my financial situation has improved, but I have got a strong habit now not to waste things. Over the last few years we have gradually evolved a diet which is almost totally organic, and I have become a vastly better and more inventive cook. We save around £50 a month compared to before when we used to use readymeals or takeaways occasionally, and I also save around £90 a month because I take leftovers to work for lunch rather than buying overpriced sandwiches. At the worst busy times when I buy readymeals, it makes me fed up to see the cost and list of rubbish added ingredients, and we feel less energetic. But I believe that you cannot take any moral high ground just by using organic produce - you have to assess your whole lifestyle such as what type of transport you use for commuting and holidays, how much effort you put into recycling, how often you use disposable products, what charities you support, and what fair trade/global issues you campaign on, and so on. Eg I think disposable toilet paper, disposable santitary protection and disposable nappies are marvellous hygienic inventions which liberate women, but supposing I had a lot of guilt about the rest of my lifestyle, perhaps I would feel obliged to use washables.

FreddieCat: the farmers market in Cardiff is on the Riverbank Embankment, thats by the STER cinema as you come out of the train station (past Hypervalue, towards Riverside/Canton). Can clarify this. Its open 10-2 every Sunday. There are also farmers markets in Penarth and I think Caerphilly but I may have made that up. It really doesn't just sell chutney. I wish it did sell ostrich eggs. It has vegeatbles. Appearently the meat is cheaper than at the supermarket. If you go you should definately buy the apple juice from the apple juice stall as it is fantastic.

TurnagainCat: Agree re lifestyle changes. I think taking this kind of step you realise that it is only the tip of the iceberg, also you are in a tiny minority doing it and really, its probably not making much difference. . We do use washable "stuff" though, fairtrade products (in preferance to organic ex for bananas for the baby) donate to charity etc. I will say that I don't think I have EVER felt smug about this, I worry that I am not doing more, but it seems to be a very common assuption that we must be smug.

Having a baby has made the biggest difference for me here. I suddenly realise that the world may be a very different place when he is an adult. I want grandchildren!

An excellent book about getting kids to like good food is "The goof our children eat" by Joanna Somebody. Has anyone else read it?

Or even "the FOOD our kids eat"...

Can I just point out that the ONLY difference between Organic and Non Organic is that (and I will now shout) THE WITHDRAWAL DATE (that is imposed) ON ANTIBIOTICS (by Organic Folkies) IS NEARLY 3 - 4 months instead of 28-31 days. It is not that many of them really want to help the environment they are in it for the MONEY!! Those who are Organic or are in conversion get a LOT of MONEY, take it from someone who is a farmer and is surrounded by those who have decided to become "environmentally good" my arse. We have over 1000 breeding ewes and over 200 head of cows with followers and we do not inject without a reason. Imagine friday morning we had 56 cattle dying with pnuemonia yes they were we have a very nasty strain on our farm which rears it head now and again and it bloody did it on friday off to the vets 7 bottles of stuff latter and a £700 vets bill later we have lost only 4. Even Organic Farmers would have had to INJECT their animals as they would have got the Vet in to inspect them, I didn't as I knew what it was, and the Organic chaps have to because of their Health Plan, they are not allowed to use Antibiotics or Dosing Stuffs without written permission of the VET.

Haven't been on here for months and look what I find first

what about pesticides/insecticides on fruit and veg and on the food given to animals destined for our tables. what about animal products given in the feed of animals that would in nature be vegetarian? i'm not asking these rhetorically, you sound as if you know more about this first hand than me tigger2!

also, if organic farmers get loads of money, than why would you stay non-organic? again a sincere question.

Many fo those who ahve "gone" organic have only done so because of the money, they get a lot of money to do so. meat and bone meal is not allowed in animal feeds now the only thing that goes on is cow shite (pardon the language).

We have to adhere to strict rules in farming now, we on our 2 farms are Scotch Quality Assured, which means that when we buy antibiotics and dosing stuffs for our cattle and sheep we have to keep records of the drugs, batch numers and what amount was administered to each beast(coo, heifer, bull, bullock!!) or sheep. I do this, althoug bloody annoying as it may be when jagging a ewe in the bum if she has just had a bad lambing and I have to remember to put it in my medicine book , but I do, as it is the correct way to do things. We don't use pesticides as we have no crops just grass on the home farm and mainly heather on the other, although we do use fertiliser mainly 20-10-10 (20 potassium, 10 potash and 10 nitrogen).

Organic Farming is not always the FRIENDLIEST way of farming as many of them wouldn't kow how to farm their way out of a paper bag! Organic products should be NO DEARER than any other, as they don't spend any money to make it more expensive!!