Sugarcraft chat

[wem]

I started a thread for cake people a while back but it got a bit lost in Chat so thought I'd try to tempt people into our lovely new baking topic.

Hopefully I'll see some of the posters from the chat thread, but for any new people popping in, introductions: I'm wem, I'm a recent cake obsessive and have been bothering mumsnetters about it a fair bit as I'm starting up cake decorating business. I don't have anywhere near the experience or knowledge of some of the posters in here, but I do have an excessive willingness to chat about cake :)

Let's try this again, eh?

Thanks wem I think we will just use the stuff we have. I can't wait to see his masterpieces tomorrow evening.

Hi all!

I've now set up a Facebook page for my cakes; you can find it at www.facebook.com/nannycookscakes.

Love, Nanny Cook!x

Hi all, here's the direct link to my Facebook page - www.facebook.com/pages/Nanny-Cooks-Cakes/396644247038565#!/pages/Nanny-Cooks-Cakes/396644247038565.

xx

Clickable link here.

has anyone used sugarflair ? I'm just about to order some for two dummies I'm doing for a wedding fayre at the beginning of August

I need to have a rant and I may offend people so I apologise in advance

I have been surfing a couple of cake supply websites this evening buying some bits and pieces of new kit (petunia cutters, some dummies, some sugar veil, a hydrangea cutter and a radical departure for me - a stencil). This has made me realise just how many "professional" cake decorators are relying on moulds, tappits, impression mats, letter cutters etc. I was admiring a website earlier and thinking how very skilled she was - now I have seen how she actually creates the decorations I realise is just basically her sticking pre-coloured sugarpaste into a silicone mould and putting it on the cakes. Or scraping royal icing over the cakes using a stencil.

This has really irritated me. When I learnt my craft there was very little in the way of "kit" available and we had to learn to adapt the cutters there were - or make things by hand. To pipe properly - from royal icing flowers and leaves to writing, complex borders, run outs, extension work, oriental stringwork and other complex techniques.

It really bugs me that people call themselves professional cake decorators when they completely rely on gadgets to achieve the decoration - and certainly don't have the skills to do it without. I know I am old school and come from a french patisserie tradition where you learnt to make everything from scratch. I just needed to get that out.

I agree to some extent, although even to be able to use all these tools you do need a minimum amount of skill as I discovered when I realised I didn't possess that particular skill because no amount of aides are going to actually manipulate and produce the decorations on their own. I don't think it means any Tom Dick or Harry can call themselves a professional cake maker, but it does make it considerably easier for those already there.

I had a range of responses to your post Nigel. Initial reaction was as it tapped in to my insecurity as someone setting up as a 'professional cake maker' with no training at all, having decorated my first cake 8/9 months ago. But I don't use that many gadgets, and am keen to learn as much as possible. I've just got out a huge Eddie Spence book and I'm looking forward to trying some of the classic piping techniques. However, a lot of the book looks quite dated, some of the extension work and collars etc. I'm not sure that kind of stuff is in demand? Or maybe people aren't learning it and so it isn't appearing on the cakes I see.

And finally, you mention buying sugarveil - from what I know of that it's an easy way of recreating intricate royal icing patterns. Is it only people who can do it for real that are allowed to use short cuts?

Wem - I am loving learning royal icing techniques - lots of people think it is outdated but I have had quite a few people asking for collars for christening cakes or drop lines on wedding cakes. I figure it can't hurt to know how to do it.

Nigel - I am totally self taught but now doing a course to perfect skills I have taught myself, buying gadgets costs lots of money so I just have to make do with what I have or figure a way to do it without a gadget. I make my own stencils and use them because stencils cut down on the man hours the people are unwilling to pay for there days.

Sorry, the last bit of my post was a bit passive aggressive. I had two small people winding me up while I tried to crystallise my thoughts. Moral of the story - don't ignore your children while you mumsnet, even if you think you just need to get one sentence out and then sort them out...

I think I was aiming at - if the end product is the same, is using gadgets that much of a problem? There's more, but must get back to my whinging children!

god, who knows what I actually mean. Can't think straight this morning.

Morning everyone, I'm sorry about last night's rant - I was really cross when I posted that. Everyone has to start somewhere and build up their confidence to try trickier techniques.

I still feel like the traditional lacemakers must have done when machines were introduced - if short cuts produce the same effect there is no need for traditional skills and the people that have them become devalued because why pay a skilled cake decorator for 2 hours piping work when you can pay someone to stencil it in 5 minutes.

I guess I should just move with the times and make the most of the time saving :D

I'm sorry to have upset you Wem, please ignore this old curmudgeon who was essentially grumpy because she couldn't afford all the shiny looking toys she wanted

just on the sugarveil - you can use it as you would do normal royal icing, in a piping cone - but as it's flexible it won't break and it can be manipulated like material.

Once I have experimented a bit I'll post some pictures.

That's ok Nigel, I know what you mean about the lacemakers. Technology is always on the move - sometimes it makes life easier for the skilled workers, but unfortunately sometimes it renders the skills obsolete. (Not that you're obsolete or anything!) Damn those shiny looking toys :)

What cakes were you looking at? I'd be surprised to see a decent cake that was created just by sticking on shapes from a mould.

Interesting about sugarveil, looking forward to seeing your results.

OhDearNigel, I do understand your need to rant, as i'm not a professional cake decorator, i am however a qualified chef who spent 3 yrs in college getting my City and Guilds 706 1/2, 20 odd yrs ago when i had no money to buy fancy cakes for kids birthdays i decided to make my own, i found i had alittle flair for this and really enjoyed it, but saying that i certainly didnt have the money for any and i mean any of the tools used today, i made my own. i've recently taken decorating back, but as i work fulltime, this is only a hobby, i do love what i do but my skills are alittle limiting but as far as i know i'm improving with every cake i do. This is why i love this thread as it gives me an insight into bigger and better things.

I think there is a lot more to it than using moulds - I use tapppits but god they hate me, there is an art and positioning them is an art too. I have seen some amazing mouldings which are hand painted, with plenty of skill. Yet fine real life flowers just do nothing for me either - you cant eat them! far too old fashioned. You do have to enbrace technology.

I do agree that many people call themselves 'professional' and seen them on FB - and they are rubbish, the cake is usually dry and awful - all fancy no substance. There are no rules on what to call yourself either - like many professions people go one price and we run a construction business and we lose out all the time to idoits! I would love to learn all techniques, I have been leaning from books and you tube - I do plan to go to college.

I am trying to find a link to some stuff I saw which would really wind Nigel up (sorry!) - pre-printed flexible sugar (or something) sheets which you just cut shapes out of

I shall remain securely out of that debate, otherwise, because I am not and am never likely to be a professional. I do sometimes use moulds but in combination with other stuff (so the fish and shells for my diver cake were from moulds, but the rest was me IYSWIM) and am rubbish at royal icing and all related skills

these ones

I have a dilemma. Someone has contacted me to ask me to do this cake for them, along with 50 cupcakes. It looks like an incredible amount of work and I was enjoying the idea of creating something along those lines. However, having looked around, it seems to have been done using this kit.

I don't want to make a cake from a kit. But that's the cake she's asked for. I could put a huge amount of work in and charge her accordingly and create something similar, but what's the point if that's the cake she wants?

What do you think/would you do?

I would say " The castle is actually polystyrene - do you realise that and therefore do you want me provide exactly that or make a proper castle cake which will be a lot more money

I think one of Lindy's books creates a similar castle effect using swiss rolls and ice cream cones - what the eye can't see....

Thanks, I'll say something along those lines. I'm not sure I even know where to start on quoting her for the real thing.

I've seen Lindy's one when I got the book out for a different cake, so was thinking I at least knew where to start looking. I only found the cake kit because the photo she sent was so small I couldn't see any details so was looking for the link myself, and found photo after photo of the same cake done by different people!

Wem - I would ask her outright and let her know roughly how much extra it would cost for a handmade version. I was recently asked to make a carousel cake and shown a picture, the carousel was a Wilton kit too, I offered to make one from scratch but she wanted the kit to keep afterwards in a memory box. I used fondant to cover some bits and it made it look much better.

I have just had the most amazing testimonial from the MN bride I made a cake for last week - she made me cry she was so lovely.

Omg Wem thats amazing, but how much cake would there actually be?

Wem, personally I think you could make something much better, but sometimes people don't always appreciate something better more, as it's subjective. maybe discuss with the customer and give her a couple of quotes?

There are 2 tiers of cake there if you look - it's all the towers and bits that are plastic.

Lots of nice "real" castle cakes around, but doing an exact copy of the kit one would be a nightmare.