Need help! Neon is dying.

[spekulatius]

Got 8 Neons, all seem happy except for one. Had been swimming more vertically all day and now lying down the bottom as if he's taking his last breath. Anything I can do? So frustrating with fish when you can't hold them.

Have you tested the water? Checked the filter and heater are running OK? Does he have any lumps, bumps, loss of colouring, anything at all you can see? Do you know how old he is?

Changed the water yesterday and added a heater as the old one broke and had been running without one for quite a while. Was set at 25C, i've reduced it to 24C thinking maybe he doesn't like it warm. But even before that he looked very pale, more grey than blue. The others and the Platys are fine. Had a platy baby, is now about same size as a Neon. Haven't tested the water yet.

The temperature should have been fine, 1 degree wouldn't have made a lot of difference. The water test results might tell you more but it's possible that he's been ill for some time already. Paleness is usually a sign that a fish isn't happy about something.

DH knows about this, add aquarium salt, it increases oxygenation and helps against pathogens. (??). If it's a swim bladder problem there is little you can do. DH silver tip (??) was kept alive with 20% water change minimum once per week! and aquarium salt. DH thinks his silver tip has a chronic disease or spinal deformity. You could also try moving your pump nearer the surface to improve the oxygenation.

I am worried he has too much time on his hands? This love of aquatic life, I will have to LTB

Still lying at the bottom. Where do i get the salt from?

It depends on the cause of the swim bladder problem. If it's bacterial then antibiotics can help. If it's a deformity then you just have to try and manage the symptoms or opt for euthanasia if it's really bad.

You'd have to get antibs prescribed by a vet or get them on ebay. The one usually used for fish is metronidazole (sometimes called Fishzole). You'd be able to find dosage amounts online. Salt is unlikely to do anything at this stage. Have you tested the water yet?

Responsible, my DH has to put up with similar but at least we're down to 2 tanks now instead of 6...

I don't really think that this one can be saved. On ebay they seem to come from outside UK and take a long time to deliver. Is it worth going to the vets? In case the others get sick as well. Neef to get to toddlers group now, will do the wayer test afterwards but i know that i havr to change the water again, it's already dirty.

Depends on the vet. My old vet was happy to prescribe antibs for my fish because she knew that I wouldn't just chuck them in the tank for any old illness. Some vets see fish as entirely replaceable and will just recommend that you euthanise (don't use the freezing method for this!). I don't think they get much fish-specific training so it'll probably vary quite a lot.

I'd keep an eye on the other fish for now. It might be that the water test will shed some light on the situation- there's no point only treating for illnesses if there's a problem with the water. I would try other treatments first before antibiotics- something like Melafix is a gentle treatment for if your fish are just a bit sick.

If you changed the water yesterday and it's dirty again already, is your stocking level maybe a bit high? How big is the tank and what have you got in there?

So done the water test. Nitrite 0, ph 7.4, Ammonia 0 (maybe vety slightly 0.25, Nitrate 5.0. Not too bad is it? So that poor Neon is lying at the bottom, really struggling. Amd I seem to have lost another one, used to have 8 Neons but can now only find 7 unless it's hiding very well. One of the Neons is swimming above the outlet from the filter, on top of it, not in front. Then I've got 3 platys and one baby. The tank is 110 litres. With the cleaning, i hadn't done ot for a while because of the baby. But to remove all the dirt from the bottom i would have had to change more than half the water so it's more old dirt.

There was a snail in it which i took out now. Could that have caused any damage?

All sounds fine with the water. Were there any other symptoms? It sounds like curtains for the neon lying on the bottom so I would probably be thinking about euthanising by now- do you know how to do it?

It could be that the neons are just overbred and a bit weak- best case scenario is that this one will be the only one that goes and the rest are fine. But I would keep an eye on the others for any signs like loss of colour, not eating, becoming skinny etc.

I would remove the dirt from the bottom. If you use an airline instead of a syphon tube then you can get more crap out without taking out too much water.

No don't know how to euthanise. How do you mean overbred? They are all adults. If that makes sense. Don't know what you mean with either cleaning method. I use a plastic tube with a wider bit at the bottom where you have to suck at the end bit to get thr water flowing. (I've posted in here before as the platys were dying, hadn't got a proper test kit, not changed the water in months..... I'm really surprised at the good test results today. Basically don't know that much about fish and had been giving out of date advice but have read the links that you sent.)

I mean mass-produced on a fish farm. Sometimes they don't pick the best parents and go for quantity rather than quality so you can get some fish that are weak and just keel over at the first sign of any germs.

I remember your other thread now, you did get some very duff advice but it sounds like things are way better in terms of water quality.

The plastic tube you've got is a syphon tube. You can get them with added on bits or you can just use a plain tube. Anyway, an airline is a much thinner plastic tube normally used for linking up airpumps to air stones or sponge filters or those ornaments with bubbles coming out of them. But there's no reason why you can't use an airline just like a syphon tube to get all the bits of crap out of tight corners or to slow down water flow a bit during changes. You can buy it by the metre in most aquatic stores or on ebay.

The best way to euthanise fish is to get half a glass of water from the tank and mix in 10-20 drops of clove oil. Then get the fish in a bucket and add the clove oil water. The fish will go to sleep and then you can either add vodka or more clove oil until the fish stops breathing. It's not easy but it's peaceful and quicker than just leaving them. Also it prevents the other fish from chowing down on the dead one which is a surefire way of them catching whatever it is that killed it.

Ok I see. Never thought of fish being mass produced. Will try the airline. Well, I don't have any clove oil or vodka in the house..... Will have to get some from the chemist tomorrow. Should i take him out of the tank over night in case he dies and the others eat him (if that's what you meant? Fish normally have more than one baby, dont they? Does that mean all the others have died? Why?

You mean the platy babies? More than likely eaten by the parent or by other fish.

Yes, it's sad that a lot of fish are mass produced. I'm sure there must be some sort of regulation but I don't know what. I've seen some fancy goldfish that are bred into such horrible shapes that they can barely swim :(

You could take him out overnight, have you got anything you can keep him in? Have you got a spare airpump or filter? Always good to have spare stuff like that btw, for emergencies like this.

No, no spares at all. Was thinking of a bucket but would probably be just as bad. When you say air pump, that's the normal pump, isn't it? That sucks the water in, flushes it through the filters amd out again? Never understood how that oxygenates the water. Thanks for all your help.

An air pump just pumps air, like this sort of thing . Filters have a part that pumps water, but not air. The way it oxygenates the water is by breaking the surface tension and increasing the surface area to maximise gas exchange. It's a bit geeky and boring But the important thing is that when the water flows out of the filter, it disturbs the surface of the water. You can have bubbles as well if you want, but the filter flow part is the most important bit.

Done it. Think he's stopped breathing

Aw :( You mean you euthanised him? It's not easy to do but sometimes it's the best thing.

Aw, how sad. I know it's only a fish but you do get attached to them. I wish I'd know about clove oil. When Bubbles probably the most beautiful fantail ever went through 10 days of gasping and sinking DH and DD would have done anything to help him.

Yes clove oil. Don't think he liked it though. Not sure where to put him now, previously have binned them when i found them dead but feel a bit more attached to this one. Though the first fish ever to die I did put in the river that runs through the local park. Just hope the rest of them will be ok. Do you think I can add anymore fish after some time?

You could bury him, I've done that with all my fish good for the roses too. I wouldn't put him in any rivers or ponds in case he transfers whatever he died from to wild fish.

I'd wait a few weeks before adding any more fish so you can keep an eye on the others and check for symptoms. You said you had a platy baby in there- have you got a mixture of male and female platys?

Erm, must have. We used to have 8 Neons which are now down to 6 and 3 big platys plus now the baby which is growing a lot, looks more like one of the Neons size wise. There is still enough space for more fish in 110 litres, isn't there?

Help please. Other Neons seem poorly as well. They try swimming up to the top and then fall down and look pale. Is there anything i can do to stop them get as bad as the first one?

I would treat the whole tank with esha 2000 and see what happens. You need to remove the carbon from your filter if you have it (tbh you don't need to use carbon routinely anyway and it's pricey to keep replacing it). It will turn your water green, but don't worry. Don't use any other meds while you're using the esha.

Fingers crossed for the rest of the neons. Good luck!