Oppenheimer

[Prrambulate]

Anyone planning on seeing this when it comes out on 21st July?

I'm looking forward to a fascinating exploration of the life of the atom bomb inventor gazing at Cillian Murphy for 3 hours.

Some recent promotional stills. The horse riding one gives off Peaky vibes!

Yes I found this too! I wondered if it was because we were in the imax.

We took our 14 year old. I wasn't sure they would sit through it (asd/adhd) but they loved it

Sound in the IMAX should be better!

I have to wear ear plugs as I find it too loud in imax but the family love it.

I also thought the bit where they did the last test bomb was very poignant. We were all expecting a huge amount of noise, then silence.

To come back to the sound comment, it is a perennial complaint against Nolan , and, despite all the adulation for him, I find Murphy a mutterer. Nolan is also a purist who wants everyone to see his films in his preferred format. Films shot in IMAX have optimal sound when watched in IMAX.

I honestly could not hear a word of The Dark Knight Rises with Tom Hardy with that stupid bloody mask on , same with Dunkirk with Tom Hardy, once more bemasked!!

I went prepared to miss a lot of Oppenheimer dialogue but actually didn't struggle until - indeed- the final line! You aren't alone. Quite a few on Twitter have said this.

It was a characteristic of Oppenheimer that he was so softly spoken people had to lean in to hear what he was saying. I’m not sure this is as effective when accompanied by a loud musical score!

There is a whole other backstory to Strauss and Oppenheimer too as regards their religion which was alluded to int he film.

https://forward.com/culture/554486/robert-oppenheimer-movie-nolan-lewis-strauss-jewish/

I actually got that bit!

I think you enjoy the film better if you realise in advance that there are 3 timelines going on.

There's the development, testing and use of the bomb.

There's the review of Oppenheimer's security clearance in 1954(?).

And there's Strauss's attempt later in the 1950s to join Eisenhower's government and how his interactions with Oppenheimer affect his chances.

It took me a while to get the 3 stories straight in my head.

And that's a huge oversimplification.

I dont entirely understand why the Strauss storyline was so important. I must be missing something there about why it was included. Context, bigger picture, I'm not sure. I'd never heard of Strauss at all.

@User5653218

I don't entirely understand why the Strauss storyline was so important. I must be missing something there about why it was included. Context, bigger picture, I'm not sure. I'd never heard of Strauss at all.

I suppose fundamentally, according to many accounts, it's important because Lewis Strauss was one of, if not the, most influential person involved in getting Oppenheimer's security clearance revoked.

I'll admit to not yet having been able to get to see the film, and I've not read the Prometheus bio but there's certainly a whole chunk of Richard Rhodes's second book on the early history of A and H bomb development ("Dark Sun") that covers the whole sorry story of how Strauss and Oppenheimer were often at loggerheads, right from pretty much their first interaction (FWIW Rhodes mentions the clash over Judaism highlighted by a pp). As a result there's always been the question of whether Strauss was motivated simply by personal enmity with Oppenheimer or did he really have justifiable and objective security concerns?

For info- The following are long books, but if you have the stamina and time for it the two Rhodes tomes ("The Making of the Atomic Bomb" and "Dark Sun") are probably the best written and most comprehensive accounts of the whole subject..it helps if you know a little about the physics but you can get away with skipping the techie bits without it detracting from the telling of the history

I think Nolan was drawn to the idea of a poetic parallel between both men, with Strauss destroying Oppenheimer’s political career, then being subject to a similar downfall.

There are two recent episodes of the rest is history podcast focused on Oppenheimer if anyone is interested in finding out more (but not quite up to the various books mentioned upthread!).

I can't link it as it is paywalled but there is a really interesting article about Oppenheimer by historian Gerard de Groot in todays Times (T2) if anyone has a subscription.

He goes through what happens in the film and how accurate or truthful it might be. It's interesting and dryly amusing. He also mentions some stuff about the man who wrote the book on which it was based.

He is least impressed by the sex scene and the airbrushing of Oppenheimer's awful misogyny and most impressed by Groves and Matt Damon.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-accurate-oppenheimer-movie-fact-checked-true-false-wkrkr90df

In case anyone does have a subscription...

Archive link to article

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2023.08.02-162737/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-accurate-oppenheimer-movie-fact-checked-true-false-wkrkr90df" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2023.08.02-162737/www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-accurate-oppenheimer-movie-fact-checked-true-false-wkrkr90df

I saw it last night and loved it. For those complaining about the women's roles, surely the movie title is a clue??(perhaps)

I found the political machinations almost as chilling as the development (and ultimate use of) the bomb, tbh.

On the portrayal of the women, what I took from it was that women were massively underrepresented at that time in science (true then and still true now), but that it was made clear early on that both Kitty and Jean were in those circles due to great intelligence and strong political views. If anything the film perfectly demonstrated the far greater negative impact of marriage and children on women’s lives (in Kitty’s case) and lack of opportunity to fully achieve their potential (in both cases).

It sounds as if it’s this year’s The Power of the Dog. Amazing cast, a massive sense of its self importance, etc

Saw this a couple of days ago and loved it. Incredible how 3 hours about the atom bomb could be so interesting my eyes didn't leave the screen!

Even better, my cinema pals were my DDs 17 and 18 and two of their friends both 18 and they throughly enjoyed it too.

what I took from it was that women were massively underrepresented at that time in science

True but some of the few actually working in science did some absolutely ground breaking work. The problem was that they generally went unrecognised/unrewarded.

Lise Meitne is a classic example, especially when you consider her work in the context of this film.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lise_Meitner

@notimagain : True but some of the few actually working in science did some absolutely ground breaking work. The problem was that they generally went unrecognised/unrewarded.

Yes indeed, add unrecognised and unrewarded to unrepresented. While the film wasn’t ‘about’ that as such, I think the prevailing attitude towards women in science (and in society in general - I imagine the lawyer in the 1954 security clearance ‘trial’ fully expected to wipe the floor with Kitty) is there for all to see.

I think the 'woman problem' extends beyond this film and is a pervasive Hollywood issue . It's a big biopic issue and they tend to be serious Oscar fodder made by big hitting male directors. Generally, biopics are about dead white males. Even Selma, a dead black male in a female directed film, is guilty of sidelining women who were very important to the Civil Rights Movement and most especially the Selma marches.

I almost wish they wouldn't just shoehorn the women in. Obviously, Kitty and Joan needed to be in this story. I thought it a shame that Kitty's characterisation came into its own near the end.

The historian linked above certainly hated the sex scene!

My 22 year old went last night. He thought it too long and needlessly complex..

I almost wish they wouldn't just shoehorn the women in. Obviously, Kitty and Joan needed to be in this story.

But the problem is you can't have it both ways. The women were part of his story but they weren't the entirety of it. Just the same as people who have said there wasn't enough focus on the Manhattan Project or his relationship with Teller or the context of the security case or his relationship with the other scientists etc ... They were all part of Oppenheimer's story but none of them were the focus of it and therefore they weren't focussed on in the film.

Kitty and Jean were relevant to Oppenheimer's story but they were always only part of it - there is so much of his story that was left out from its translation from American Prometheus to the screen but there will have been just as much left out from his actual story to the book, you can't fit everything in.

They needed to include Kitty and Jean because they were important to Oppenheimer's story and they had a need to be referenced but they were never meant to be the focus, they were huge influences on Oppenheimer in so many ways and some weren't massive moments but were still important - eg the fact Jean was one of the inspirations behind the naming of the Trinity project isn't made a big deal out of in the film but it was an influence she had on him and the project - but in the grand context of his whole story they weren't pivotal enough moments to justify more screen time, especially when the film was already 3hrs. They would have had to either cut something else minor but important or add more time and both would have then invited more criticism from people who felt that there wasn't enough focus on XYZ and ABC should have been explored deeper and so on and infinitum.

Yes, understood but the sex scene really added nothing and seemed to be the way of getting the famous quote in before its time, which jarred. Imo there was plenty could have been cut! It's very odd really because for a 3 hour film , a lot felt superficial. A bit overstuffed. In need of a good edit. Which Nolan is legendarily averse to!

There is definitely a wider discussion to be had still in the 21st century about Hollywood's focus.

I’m not sure if I’m making too much of this, but did anyone notice a recurring visual pattern - on windows and again on curtains - that looked like an atomic bomb mushroom cloud? Like a presage of things to come.