Young women dies - dismissed as a 'time waster' by hospital staff

[Highmoon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c302e83vrv5o

These news stories seem more and more frequent. This time the young woman had her parents with her and she was still dismissed as a time waster. This makes me so mad. This could so easily be any of our daughters.

I noticed Mumsnet is featuring a petition on medical misogyny. I spotted this on the same day, proving how much a change is needed.

Oh goodness that is an awful harrowing story to read. The poor young woman must have been terrified along with her parents. I don't understand why no one properly examined or scanned her, or why they didn't take the vomiting of black liquid more seriously. It seems incomprehensible to me. I worry that no genuine learning or changes will take place though, as it's far too easy to blame individuals or claim that things will change without any evidence of follow through.

I don't understand why criminal charges can't be brought against individuals in cases like this one.

It’s completely dreadful. An awful death, such a young woman (not that it would be ok at any age), and diabolically bad care. It’s odd that the practice of adding differential diagnoses to the notes seems to be falling out of usual practice ie ‘ my diagnosis is X but given symptoms it is possible that A B or C might be the case’ - I think just that mental process of noting those possibilities triggers you to think about other investigations.

I haven’t linked to it here because it’s so distressing but there is a terrible article in a newsletter called The Londoner at the moment about a young disabled woman who died in the care of her mentally ill, vulnerable and visibly incapable mother. The death wasn’t discovered for two years. Again numerous contacts with a range of agencies, all of which did either less than the minimum or took actions that were actively harmful (like removing a highly vulnerable household from a GP list due to lack of contact). As an HCP it’s terrifying to think that trained people can do such poor work.

Every time I read these accounts I remember the pain and fear I experienced while having a heart attack, hearing my husband on the 999 call for 17 minutes, begging for help.
The call handler and her senior decided I was a silly woman having a panic attack and flatly refused to send an ambulance.
We are completely at the mercy of whatever mood/preconceptions/prejudices/ these people are in.
Reading in that article that the staff were watching a football match is shocking.

How awful but really no surprise, so many missed opportunities, misdiagnosed, no urgency, no lateral thinking, nurses watching tv, we've seen it all before. Lessons learned, yeah right, until the next time, sincere apologies, too little too late, are any of the staff involved suspended or referred to their governing bodies.

So sorry to hear this, I don't expect any action was taken against the call handler. Hope you're fully recovered.,

We called an ambulance for our neighbour who had some worrying symptoms, it was only when my husband told the call handler that neighbour had had a previous heart attack that they sent an ambulance. He had sepsis and had he been left overnight the outcome would have been very different! (Doctors words, not mine)

No, we did complain but apparently she did her triage correctly.
Clearly "Central crushing chest pain, radiating to back, jaw and down left arm, together with extreme distress" didn't feature anywhere in her check list. She was rude, sarcastic and aggressive.
I am physically recovering, but still having flashbacks and I frequently feel tearful at the thought that I could have died.

@dazedbutstillhere "We are completely at the mercy of whatever mood/preconceptions/prejudices/ these people are in"

that's about the size of it

I have a raft of medical experience going over years and years, and some of it through supervising parents

What you described is where we are now. Nobody cares about anyone else. I suppose that relates to the watching football on the job.

In terms of staff structure, it never seems to be anyone's responsibility to examine the patient, never mind actually collate an overview of what might be wrong with the patient

we'd be here all day if I tried to type up the things I've seen and experienced

I don't know if it would be the same if the poor lady had been seen in the private sector. Because there's a weird thing now where people's egos and moods and feelings have taken over. I would hope the private sector realises that they don't have a business model without a patient so maybe it's different? I don't know. There's not much in the way of private A&E provision anyway, even in London. It exist in London but of course they're limited in what they can deal with because all the expert stuff is on the NHS.

I just don't know what to say anymore. Except I'm very sorry of course.

I have noticed that outcomes tend to be better if you can walk in with some knowledge of what might have happened. One thing I learned was that if you mention any kind of condition, anything you think it might be, they do seem to be under obligation to follow that up.

but my last experience with that was a few years ago, so it might now be the case that they just assume you have googled your symptoms and they will ignore any theory you might have.

Of course, most of the time we are too ill to have a theory if we're actually in A&E.

it would probably help if NHS staff didn't have to do all the pointless paperwork that they have to do? Then they might have room to do a bit more practical stuff?

As I say, I'm just baffled, maybe it's the whole rats in a sack thing. We haven't got the capacity to care about each other anymore?

I should add, big up to all the hospital staff who are doing a good job - I know you're out there and I can't imagine how you must be feeling.

Keeps happening over and over again. It’s disgraceful. When Dd was 21yo she was discharged twice in quick succession from a&e with chest pain. To,d it was anxiety. I took her back a third time a few weeks later as she was sobbing in pain. The triage nurse took her obs which were fine and turned to me and rolled her eyes at me. Like it was perfectly acceptable and that I’d be joining in with the eye rolling. The eye rolling was actually in response to Dd saying how bad the pain was. Nurse obviously didn’t believe her. Turned out she had a massive bilateral PE which they’d missed twice.

@JulietteHasAGun can I ask how it was discovered that it was a blood clot?

It took 15 years for me to diagnosed with MS, when I researched women are diagnosed at half the speed of men as they are dismissed and not believed.
The NHS fails women utterly, and sees us as "non men". Every person on this planet is made by a woman, how can they not see?

So on the third appointment a more sensible nurse ordered a d dimer blood test. Previously they hadn’t bothered with that and sent her home after a normal ecg.

Can't count the times this has happened to me.

One time I had a kidney stone and wasn't believed so had to pass it without pain relief.

Another I had a grade 3 stress fracture. Three separate hospital workers refused to believe me and I was treated like a hypochondriac and/drug seeker and misdiagnosed. Paid for a private scan in the end.

Took years to diagnose other long term disabling conditions due to the attitude of many (not all) doctors.

I avoid helathcare workers at all cost now. The cost, I suppose, might be my life.

That poor woman.

Sorry for typo - should be young woman

The NHS is a complete shit show needs a complete overhaul

Yes. The nurse on CCU (when I eventually got there) told me that if I had been a man I would have got an ambulance straight away. Her actual words!
The default seems to be that if you are female, it must be hysterics, attention seeking, foolishness.
This is coming from female HCPs - you would think there would be some empathy.
Thinking back, all the male staff in resus, in the cath lab, in CCU were so kind. There seems to be a majority of male staff in cardiology.

I actually thought this might be about this case

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-dies-after-getting-unconnected-33905403.amp

Some staff are little more than bloated ticks, suckling from the failing NHS.

The NHS in it's current form needs to die, instead of letting incompetence, laziness and heavy burocracy kill more people.

Yes - sadly I have my own 'I could have died' story. It never leaves you. 💐

The woman in the OP seems like a usually healthy young woman with a 'normal' life and parents who could advocate for her which makes it all the more terrifying.

If you have any sort of mental health diagnosis or are on any psychiatric drugs, the first assumption will be that it's 'mental health'. And sadly there are just as many uncaring and unprofessional workers in the mental health fields so if a psychiatrist decides you're a hypochondriac after meeting you once (as happened to me) that will be on your record for ever.

Link to Mumsnet petition
Sign this petition, the link is also at the top of the page, I signed it the other day as I took have experienced this, luckily not life threatening. I'm surprised there are so few signatures on it.
I'm so sorry to hear of all the terrible experiences that the women here have had. I hope you all to continue to heal. 💐

Medical people treating ill people like an inconvenience, what a shock! Dreadful.

I couldn’t rest until I saw some heads roll (figuratively speaking). Been fobbed off myself in the past with what turned out to be cancer. Thankfully for me my A&E effectively saved my life.

Poor girl and her devastated family.

Just signed the petition

That poor woman and her poor family.

I too have been brushed off, once when I later received a very serious diagnoses (I don't want to share as outing) and another on a labour ward - two unrelated incidents, one relating to me in labour and one relating to my new born.

On all occasions, it was a woman who dismissed my concerns and was only taken seriously when a man stepped in, or happened to be the next person I got to plead my case to.

I do believe misogyny is at play here, but worryingly from the people you'd least expect it to be from.

There was a piece on radio 2 yesterday about pregnant women being brushed off as a nuisance in a labour ward - which would predominantly be staffed by women. The had the abbreviation "FOH" on the board next to patient name. FOH stands for Fuck Off Home. I can't understand how we got to a point where clinically vulnerable people are treated with such contempt by the very people who's sole purpose it to look after their best interests, but it's terrifying how wide and deep this stretches and I don't know how we wipe it out when it's clearly so heavily engrained.

@JulietteHasAGun I see I thought that was something they would do on A&E visit

The default now seems to be to make you go away, though. I wonder if they actually would rather patients just quietly expire so they can be removed from the caseload. And waiting lists.