Can a man truly be a feminist?

[OneLimeDuck]

Just for a little bit of context I have and do challenge people, well other men essentially, when they things that are sexist or do things that are inappropriate or could cause distress.
Today at work a female colleague was showing a new member of the department, also female, the procedure for a particular activity. This procedure requires me to give an authorisation for part of it.
On entering my office the longstanding colleague introduced me to her new colleague and we went through my part of the procedure.
As they left I overheard my longstanding colleague say to the new person "OneLimeDuck is one of the good guys, he is a feminist."

Reflecting on this I don't believe I am, I fact I don't think anyman can be.

My reasoning is as follows:

I can be aware of and know about the issues faced by women in society, such as having to deal with aggressive male behaviour or not having their contributions valued, etc.

I cannot however fully understand them as they are not my lived experience, so I accept that in reality I don't fully appreciate just how problematic things actually are.

An example is when listening to a woman making a point of argument about female righrs etc, or even reading one in a forum, I don't immediately 'get it' but have to think about it.

So, forget about me as an individual but do you agree with me that no man can truly be a feminist?

If you think a man can, or even could be, then what would it be about him that would,i your view, make him one?

@Dervel women can’t afford to ‘live and let live’ on women’s rights. If someone is threatening, or damaging those rights, it doesn’t matter if they are on a “trajectory of hate” or not, the negative effect is the same.

Women do not have equality in this world. At the moment we cannot even have our own sex class separate to men.

Women are told they are bigots for wanting to maintain rights that we already have in law. Men are encroaching on our space.

Very few men care about this. They don't actually care about their mothers, wives, daughters. If they did, they would know this is happening to us and not tell us to 'live and let live'.

We, as women, also have our part to play by challenging the patriarchy.
For example, hand on heart, how many of us have retained our surname and not changed our title upon marriage?
How much of this has been influenced by men?
The "small ticket" things add up.

Rarely and the more allegedly left wing they are the worse they are whilst espousing all manner of what they think you want to hear. Having been involved with the political world for many years as part of my career I have met many men and women of all political colours. Some of the most unlikely allies have been a type of Tory because they will treat you just the same if you are a viable economic unit.

My utter hatred for trade unions, having been an active trade unionist myself is unmatched as the left ‘let me down’.

The only men I have ever met who say they are feminists are always utter shits.

Yes. I know a number of men whom I sincerely believe are feminists.

Thank-you for starting this thread. I am a guy. Only joined Mumsnet a few days ago as I didn't think it was a place for me (especially the Feminist Boards) but having a daughter really makes you think about this stuff. Gender woo woo has also made me pay closer attention.

I agree with Julie Bindel. I don't think I can be a feminist as I'm a guy. However, I do try my best. I've always made my own sandwiches.

@MyShyCat "A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men." – Gloria Steinem

Yes, the ones who quietly stand up for women and correct other men. There are not many but they do exist. Andy Murray (tennis player) has often corrected journalists on this matter when females tennis player achievements have been ignored.

My brain has just exploded.

My husband is a true feminist. He doesn’t go on about it in a performative way, but he is a genuine ally of women.

So anyway... I once agreed with Julie Bindel in that men couldn't be feminists as feminism was the only movement by and for women but actually I think I like this here Gloria Steinem women instead. She sounds like she knows what she is talking about!

ohhh and as for "performative men"... you should hear my 16 year-old daughter go off about them and their wee bags! As my wife and I say... "The problem with raising strong independent women is that you have to deal with strong independent girls." She definitley knows her on mind! I love it.

No. I don't think a man can be a feminist, but he can most definitely be an ally to feminists. You can be an ally in the fight against any form of discrimination (racism, sexism, disability), but you'll never truly understand if you don't live it. You'll never have to dwell in the skin that is being attacked or oppressed and your intelligence around the issue will therefore be less.

And on closer reading - Gloria Steinem was Trans Inclusive.

So I'm back to agreeing with Julie Bindel. Guys can not be feminists.

Why is this all soooo complicated?

Gloria Steinem is one of the greatest modern day Feminist. Look her up. I think you’ll be impressed.

Thanks Stella. Today has been a school day. My reading shows that in later years she reversed her exclusionary views on Trans Ideology and now advocates for Trans Women's inclusion in female spaces. I think she is wrong on this count and it makes me think maybe she also got it wrong when she said men can be feminists.

However, I'm still reading and still learning!

She was trans inclusive 40-years-ago before men declaring themselves to be women started to invade women’s spaces and the trans ‘women’ movement started to trample over the hard won rights of women. I don’t agree with what she said 40-years-ago. Nevertheless, trans ‘women’ were not really toxic in those days, so I can agree to differ with her on the issues of the time. She is a very old woman now (92) and hasn’t been up to commenting on what we are dealing with now.

I think I need to read a bit more!!

@MyShyCat also remember you can disagree with someone on one matter and still agree with them on other positions. Her definition of Feminism is spot on in my opinion. I believe that men can be feminists. It doesn’t matter that they don’t have a woman’s lived experience. Feminism is political. Men (trans or otherwise) cannot be women because they don’t have the lived experience of always being female.

I think I need a bit of time to get my head around this but if men can be considered feminists then Trans Women can also be considered feminists because they are men. And isn't the big problem with Trans Ideology the fact that it is based on misogynsitic stereotypes of women?

Which leads me to the question... Can Transwomen be feminists?

Or have i just really confused myself and maybe I just need a wee lie down and a cup of tea?

Yes, totally agree with this

I agree with the talk the talk and walk the walk comment, especially when he may be tested because he’s being pushed not to be

I'm a staunch feminist and my husband is definitely an ally I would say. Didn't bat an eyelid when we married and I retained my title (Ms), and we both added on to our names to double-barrel. He took a day off work (unpaid) for a year when I returned to work after we had our little one and is an exceptional and fully present father ❤️
He works in a predominantly female environment in a caring role (there's only a couple of men in the large office he is based in) and definitely feels more comfortable in the main in the company of women.
I wouldn't change him for the world.

I don't think it's feminist to give men kudos for doing things that we do all the time.

I don't think that means they are feminist, I think it just means they are a decent person who is capable of earning a living, raising a family and looking after a house - like most of us.

I don’t think the big problem with trans ‘women’ is misogynistic ideology. The problem is that many/most of them want to be considered women in the literal sense of the term, allowing them to enter all women’s spaces including e.g. women’s sports where they shouldn’t be for various reasons. There are a few trans ‘women’ who themselves state that they are not the same as adult human females and that’s fine, live and let live etc. Anyone who fully supports women’s women’s rights can, in my opinion, be a feminist.

@WallaceinAnderland But how many men actually treat their wives as a genuine equal in all regards and equally do the housework/childcare etc?
I hardly know of any.
And I'm not sure that's what all women want? To share roles equally (including working and sharing finances)? I know there is still the aspiration of some to "marry a rich man" etc/the old-fashioned perception that to be a "man" is to be the provider etc...