If a rapist says it's all right, then it's not rape?

[MsAmerica]

The Trial of Gisèle Pelicot’s Rapists United France and Fractured Her Family
After fifty-one men were convicted, Pelicot became a feminist hero. But additional accusations left her children struggling to accept her new role.
By Rachel Aviv

At the trial, he admitted to all the charges—“I am a rapist, like those in this room,” he said.

Nearly all the other defendants denied committing a crime. “As long as the man is there, giving me instructions, it’s not rape,” a construction supervisor said.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/03/02/the-trial-of-gisele-pelicots-rapists-united-france-and-fractured-her-family

Can't read your link OP because it's behind a pay wall.

Presumably you're aware that much of the better press has a paywall. I provide enough so that you can try a search on your own, or see if you can find the article at a good library.

In this case, I mostly wanted to highlight that remark.

“As long as the man is there, giving me instructions, it’s not rape,” one of the rapists said.

Read that two or three times to let it sink in.

The woman’s lack of consent is irrelevant. She’s just a bit of equipment owned by another man.

This is the patriarchy accidentally saying the bits they don’t want to publicise out loud.

Just because he said it - doesn't mean its right, or anyone would think its right.

I don't think its the patriarchy as such - its just one man's stupid, twisted opinion. The vast majority of men would disagree with him completely.

Many men truly cannot consider women as equal humans: They belong to the fathers, before belonging to the husbands. (That is actually written into laws and made into religious wedding rituals) If the owner tells you to use any of his possessions, it is fine.

The man who said that is Muslim. That may explain his view of a woman as her husband’s possession. It would have been the same in Europe a couple of hundred years ago of course but I don’t think any western man would be so lacking in self awareness as to say that out loud these days.

You think people are going to open your thread then pop off down to a library to search for the original article??

But yes it's appealing that in so called modern society, women are still seen as a man's possession to do with as he can.

I suspect the vast majority of rapists at trial deny rape using a variety of spurious and grotesque rationale. It’s a disgusting thing to have said but I’d pay it little heed. He was found guilty. And I presume like the others, is in prison.

Is the ´man giving instructions’ a true translation? From what I understand the husband was telling some of these men that his wife had consented in advance to this kink of him watching other men with her while she was unconscious. So they pled not guilty based on being assured it wasn’t rape by her husband and not knowingly committing rape.

They were still convicted sending a clear signal that you need consent directly and in the moment from who ever you are about to have sex with.

This isn’t news. In fact, a transgender supporter on here - on this very board - told me that my consent wasn’t important. It was my rapist’s internal cognition that mattered.

A Muslim man’s view of women. Why didn’t you clarify that, OP?

I would also be cautious about whether that translation is accurately conveying the social meaning of what was said.

Here's an archived version of the full article: archive.ph/eWCXO

Marital rape has been a crime in England and Wales for less than 40 years.

Um ... not one man. There were a host of rapist, even just in that one group.

As a matter of fact, when you hear of someone being gang-raped in war, isn't it probably the same mindset of "Oh, well, if that guy is implying it's all right, then it's all okay"?

Excellent, thank you.