Those opposed to surrogacy, what are your views on egg donation?

[wholeeverything]

I'm a gender critical woman with a high degree of skepticism about commercial surrogacy. I'm also facing the possibility of never having my own child.

Thinking hard about egg donation, I am conflicted about my own views about the ethics of it, from the point of view of the egg donor. What are your views? I am particularly interested in the views of those opposed to surrogacy. Do you see it as the same issue?

I feel like I cannot think objectively because of my own fertility issues. I am personally fine with the ethics of the child's rights, in that I would view it as similar to adoption with a child having the right to know their biological origins, and that then being something for me to decide if I am OK with at a personal level. Where there is full transparency, I don't see it as violating the child's rights.

But what about the young women selling eggs? Is it invasive, dangerous? Should it be viewed like surrogacy or selling an organ? Is it only considered by women in financial hardship, i.e. effectively coerced?

@ElizabethReedyou’re probably right - that was my speculation. The rest of it is accurate.

If the egg ‘donor’ did it to fund her own fertility treatment that’s an ethical issue.

Removing anonymity of biological parents still leaves ethical issues, and risks for the DC.

I know someone who finally got pregnant at 45 with donor eggs and sperm (solo mum) after years of failed fertility treatment (I think initially with her own eggs and then several rounds of donor eggs too). She was diagnosed with terminal ovarian cancer shortly after the birth of the baby. It seems likely that all the fertility treatments had an impact. She has no family other than elderly parents who are now going to have to take on a baby that they are not genetically related to in the near future. It is literally the worst possible nightmare come true.

I agree that donor eggs are sold as an option like it’s all straightforward, but there is a range of huge risks involved. People do not have the right to a baby just because they want one.

The only person I’ve ever know to be an egg donor was an absolutely rancid person with precisely zero redeeming features. And a very poor genetic history. The thought of her genes being passed on through some unsuspecting family is not a happy one.

Hopefully to a lesser extent but I can completely relate to that, my children in their own little ways have all been very hard work at times but what’s kept me going is the fact that they’re mine and I can relate to all of their idiosyncrasies and flaws, because they’re mostly mine too
I guess it’s the same with adoption, but if you’ve actually grown the baby, I think you’re expectation might be that it’s a bit more like you

For me, the entire fertility industry has gone into places that are highly unethical and so it is so hard to draw a line. The child's needs are not centered in any of it, and that includes cases like the one that has just been mentioned. I am guessing that the parents don't have the donors' details and so the children won't have the chance of a relationship with their genetic relatives until they are 18.

The move in adoption is towards increasing amounts of contact with birth family because this is considered best for the child. With assisted conception, this seems to have been forgotten. This is because it is driven by medical advances, lawyers, money - adoption on the other hand is more in the hands of social services and no money.

Reading stories about commercial surrogacy really hit me deep, some are so troubling. It does make me wish for a stop to advances in science. I know they help some people but there have been so many negative consequences.

I think you're seeing what it is correctly. It's no where near as bad as surrogacy as the baby will identify you as its mother and the baby isn't being removed.

Hi OP, I read your post the other day, and while I had nothing to add to your question at the time, it stayed with me. Egg donation was not something I'd given much thought too, however, like you, I am gender critical, and also strongly opposed to surrogacy. An online women's group I belong too just posted this link, which I followed through a few layers, about the egg donation underworld, I thought you should know. I'm sorry it's not good news, but I also thought you'd rather know.
https://x.com/i/status/2049849147818180712

@Chickadeeinme
no that’s completely incorrect
those eggs would not have been unwanted or destroyed I assure you - the donor was clearly offered a reduced cost of IVF treatment to give some of her eggs to others. Effectively taking advantage of a woman’s poor financial situation and desperation to have her own child

your daughter has basically had someone else’s child and used dubious ethical morals to obtain it. It’s incredibly selfish

As DC get older they are likely to have thoughts and feelings about their biological mother (egg ‘donor’ if it was true donation - in OP’s family’s case it seemingly wasn’t). Or father for sperm donation, There are some challenges and risks to the DC relating to not knowing (in person) and not being brought up by bio parent(s).

I don't know, my head tells me morally very questionable, however I know a lovely 8 year old born who was born via surrogacy and egg donation. His mum had cancer in her 20s, and then 20 years later she and her husband came into an inheritance and spent it on surrogacy, his sperm and a bought in egg. They are lovely parents with a happy child, and it seems mean to deny them this. It's a grey area.

This.

I absolutely don’t believe we should be paying women for eggs. It can be a life risking procedure

I would feel a bit different about a sister donating to her sister for example, but no money should be changing hands.

I couldnt have children. It happens to a lot of people. The question then is what you do next.

Nowadays people have all sorts of options, which are being presented as absolutely ethical, and yet, they raise so many issues that are just swept under the carpet.

The whole industry is based on the needs of the adults. The child's needs are bottom of the pile. That's why I can't support it. In the UK you get to know your donors details at 18 but that means you grow up without knowing. That is purely for the adults' benefit and seems unfair to me.

I adopted. I have two girls, now adults, who had the opportunity for a family life with us because I didn't go down the donor eggs route.

I'm not saying people should do what I did, but I do feel that children should know their origins. We were always very open about birth family.

No she hasn’t. She’s had two beautiful girls who would never otherwise have existed, and she’s giving them a great and loving childhood . Don’t be absurd.

Would your daughter be prepared to give those embryos to another couple rather than have them destroyed?

I don’t know - I haven’t discussed it with her. Not my business.

Is it not similar to sperm donation? Certainly ethically imo

Surrogacy is a world away from those things

Depends on the details, egg donation by someone undergoing ivf who has excess viable eggs is different to someone undergoing egg harvesting just for you

It isnt.
They make you feel like you are so lucky to have “extra” and wouldn’t the reduced cost be a bonus etc

Mean to rich affluent adults.

It isn't about whether it's mean to them. It's about whether it's ethical and whether there are consequences to all other parties involved.

Even your comment is entirely focused on them.

There is no reflection on how it might be 'mean' to a surrogate or to any potential siblings of this child. Or long term consequences to the child themselves.

This is what's frustrating. The invisibility of others and how focused we are on rich affluent and privileged individuals.

It's about being able to buy everything.

Saying no to these type of people isn't mean. It's just a reflection on how their decision might have deep and significant 'mean' implications for many, many others.

This includes the principle of when you say yes to one couple, how do you say no to others who really are unsuitable and aren't lovely and nice and 'deserving'.

The narrative of the 'deserving' poor couple is one which chooses to ignore the rather more haunting reality of the nefarious.

No.

And sperm donation is massively problematic too.

Just because we can, doesn't mean we should.

As usual with these threads it's 90% about the poor people who can't have a child naturally.

I'd like to see a lot more consideration for the children. Genetics are not fully understood but they are the link to who you are. DNA isn't just about looks, intrests and ethnicity. I think we often fail to acknowledge this when looking at egg/ sperm donations.

We agreed that we wouldn’t adopt if we couldn’t have children. I couldn’t possibly imagine donating my eggs. It would feel like giving away my children and not knowing if they were loved and cared for. The trouble with surrogacy is that so many poor women in poor countries are undertaking it as the only way to support their families. Isn’t this all as a result of people thinking it is their right to have a child?

I have a close friend who had a baby from an egg donation. She had tried IVF and failed. I supported her every step of the way. I don’t see it as any different from a sperm donation. If anything I see it better than a sperm donation as women support women. Women get it. If I could donate, I would. I was too old to donate for my friend.

Human beings who have been conceived in this way beg to differ. It's not a benign choice. This applies to both sperm and egg donation. Please do some research into the experience of adults who have been conceived in this way. We don't have a right to personal fulfilment at the cost of trashing another person's autonomy and history.