Those opposed to surrogacy, what are your views on egg donation?

[wholeeverything]

I'm a gender critical woman with a high degree of skepticism about commercial surrogacy. I'm also facing the possibility of never having my own child.

Thinking hard about egg donation, I am conflicted about my own views about the ethics of it, from the point of view of the egg donor. What are your views? I am particularly interested in the views of those opposed to surrogacy. Do you see it as the same issue?

I feel like I cannot think objectively because of my own fertility issues. I am personally fine with the ethics of the child's rights, in that I would view it as similar to adoption with a child having the right to know their biological origins, and that then being something for me to decide if I am OK with at a personal level. Where there is full transparency, I don't see it as violating the child's rights.

But what about the young women selling eggs? Is it invasive, dangerous? Should it be viewed like surrogacy or selling an organ? Is it only considered by women in financial hardship, i.e. effectively coerced?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/AMA/4715888-i-donated-my-eggs-ama

This was an interesting AMA thread from a while back by an egg donor. Maybe this is helpful for you. She did say that she felt the process was "brutal" and very much downplayed, but maybe things have changed since then.

If I were desperate to have a child and unable to conceive my own, I would think of adoption and definitely not even consider egg donation. For me, that would feel selfish on so many counts just so I could have the experience of carrying and birthing a child. As someone who had a full hysterectomy in her 30s, I had to come to terms with never carrying a child. I didn't end up adopting as my marriage fell apart, but it would have been my only option at that point.

I fail to see the difference between egg “donation” and selling an organ to be honest. Even the word “donation” doesn’t sit right with me because would the industry exist without money changing hands? Of course not. But then I disagree with all forms of “donation” in relation to reproduction and certainly disagree with surrogacy.

One of the major objections to surrogacy is that a newborn baby is take from the birth mother and given to another family with a different biological rhythm and smell and sensory environment. And that might be less than ideal for the babies development. But the same applies to adoption. This problem does not apply to egg donation where the same woman carries the baby in her womb and raises baby from birth.

a second objection to surrogacy is the exploitation of the woman who carries the pregnancy. That applies to a lesser extent for egg donation. There are medical risks but less than a pregnancy.

a third objection to surrogacy is about the genetic link of mother and child. Again, that is different for egg donation.

you might need to think about which of these reasons for disliking surrogacy is most powerful and whether that also applies to egg donation.

I’m going through my first IVF cycle now and having experienced it first hand I really feel egg donation to be unethical. It’s invasive and physically demanding, it’s so far removed from sperm donation. It’s hard enough to go through an egg retrieval yourself in the hopes of getting pregnant.

I have empathy for women who go down the donor egg route though and can see the appeal. Women will often choose this after several failed cycles of their own and it’s a heart-breaking last attempt to conceive a child. In that respect I understand why women choose that route and I don’t judge them for that.

This is pretty much my entire view too. I feel differently to egg donation than I do surrogacy but it is not entirely benign. But rarely is anything in life entirely black or white.

I'm OK with egg donation, as far as the babies rights go. I oppose surrogacy as the baby knows the mother it grew in, so suffers trauma when removed at birth. I don't think that is the case with egg donation, as long as you have age appropriate conversations with the child, the same as you would with sperm donation.

The rights of the egg doner can be tricky, it is a very invasive procedure so if done for money, could be exploitative. Often eggs are 'donated' as part of someone else's fertility treatment journey, if they had more harvested then were used. This could be an ethical solution, but often isn't without pressure (eg. Treatment is cheaper if you also donate), so I think you'd need to be very careful about where the egg came from.

Would it perhaps be ok if there were any spare eggs after a woman had undergone IVF for herself for her to donate them? This then becomes ethically more similar to sperm donation as she’s not undergoing additional stress and risk.
Obviously the numbers of eggs available would be very limited and this could make this approach prone to abuse.

Thanks - yes, I tend to agree, I do feel very selfish for even thinking about it. That said, domestic adoption to strangers is not a realistic option for very good reasons anymore - access to abortion and contraception, the rights of a birth mother, and a preference for adoption within families where feasible. International adoption certainly also has the same potential for exploitation.

@parietal Thanks. This is very much my line of thinking. My primary opposition to surrogacy is that I don't believe it would exist if women didn't face financial hardship - this is why it only exists as a financially viable option for most western couples when they use poor countries. I also oppose the levels of scrutiny and regulation of lifestyle which surrogates face, and I believe there are irreconcilable challenges in relation to who has rights relating to terminations for medical reasons, for example, which cannot simply be solved through prior legal agreements.

I think it's clear that the scale of invasiveness and risk is lower for egg donation compared with surrogacy. But I am unsure whether I think it's a risk

@BelBridge I agree that the same ethical issues exist. I do think that while the health risks of egg 'donation' are downplayed, they are not comparable to the health risks of organ donation. That said, altruistic organ donation is allowed, and while there is compensation for egg 'donation' it isn't, as far as I can see, high enough in European countries to explain why women do it - unlike surrogacy. For example it's in the region of 1,000 in Europe, compared with 5-10,000 in the US. That said, when I originally wrote the title to my post I also put 'donation' in inverted commas (must have been removed!) so I do agree.

@Sprogonthetyne @Greymatterwriter Thank you for that nuance. You've at least encouraged me to keep thinking about it. It is very hard to turn my back on, and yet I could never, ever do something I felt was exploiting a woman. I do feel the financial payment is low enough that it is more of a 'choice' than surrogacy, where women really need life-changing sums to be offered in situations of severe hardship in order to agree to it. It would be great if there was more publicly provided research about the impacts (emotional, physical) on egg donors, instead of just 'testimonials' provided by industry. If you come across anything worth wording do share.

@InWithPeaceOutWithStress Fully understand that. Even with non-donor IVF, I feel the industry as a whole undersells the difficulties, and really we should be supporting women to avoid IVF where possible - for their own sake. Access to affordable housing at a younger age would make a massive difference to the age women decide to have kids, I'd say. That said, as a woman facing potential age-related infertility, I can imagine my younger self (if better informed) choosing altruistic egg donation to provide a family to a stranger. I can't ever imagine saying the same about surrogacy. All the best with your journey :-)

@Shallotsaresmallonions Thanks, that was really informative. It's interesting that she doesn't regret it and hasn't come to oppose it as a practice, in spite of it being so brutal.

The only children within the UK I have known to be adopted at birth, were the offspring of an addict. They were already addicted themselves and the adoptive parents had undergone a lot of preparation beforehand. They knew they were unlikely to be allowed to adopt again after the first, and it wasn’t easy (think of the most awkward “normal” baby and multiply it). But they did eventually get the chance to adopt a sibling.

@wholeeverythingunfortunately £1000 is still a very good level of compensation for a lot of women. And I actually think egg/sperm donation is worse because it intrinsically involves a third party that cannot consent: the prospective child. At least if I chose to donate a kidney it will affect nobody but myself.

I think my view is somewhere similar to this.
I think the number of true “donations” is small - rich people don’t do it, and with Egg/Embryo Sharing arrangements I have seen, it was closer to “Egg/Embryo Buying”.

It definitely is significantly less problematic than Surrogacy, but still problematic.

I’m circumspect on egg donation. I don’t really see a scenario in which it can happen truly altruistically, even in the UK.

I feel in particular for women who have shared their eggs for cheaper private IVF where their donee has a successful pregnancy, but the donor does not.

I am 100% against anonymous donation and will judge anyone who goes down that route. Children are owed the ability to understand their backgrounds.

Yes, that's true in relation to the child's lack of consent. Do you also oppose adoption and fostering for the same reasons (genuinely curious!)?

From the point of view of the child, I don't really see the issue of not 'consenting' as a major one. Many, many aspects which are larger than genetic material are not chosen by a child. I don't believe this in itself is psychologically harmful, nor is there evidence that it is - there are plenty studies showing both cases as far as I can so, and no consensus either way. However, for a young person who is having a rough time of it, for all the same reasons as other young people, I think the issue of donor conception could provide an additional 'what if' - what sort of life might I have had if ...

Thanks again for your honesty and reflection.

I agree on anonymous donation. I find it incredible how many people are outraged at the history of 'anonymous' forced adoptions, but see anonymous surrogacy/donor conception as entirely justifiable.

I'm going to counter this. I also have been through IVF. Twice. I didn't find the process of retrieval bad at all.

In terms of the question, I think if you would consider doner sperm, I would also consider doner eggs.

Also, for anyone saying adoption would be better, ethically, I would probably agree, but you would have to be prepared for the psychological issues you would face a) going through the process and b) dealing with a child that will inevitably have been through the ringer and may have attachment issues and long lasting harm relating to their circumstance. You need to be a certain kind of person to deal with that.

I don’t oppose adoption and fostering because they are focused on providing care for people who already exist. My issue is more related to the idea of people being able to buy genetic material that they would otherwise not have any access to for the purposes of creating new life. I think that should be against the law, because it is creating an industry that centres around the consumption of genetic material.

It’s all about power dynamics again, and the rich profiting off the poor. It disturbs me that we live in a society where increasingly every single part of our bodies are becoming consumer products.

For me there is a difference between eggs which are 'spare' from an IVF procedure and a woman who isn't trying to conceive donating eggs. ( sorry I can't think of a better way to express that). I'm concerned that it's not a simple procedure and I would not be happy with a woman perhaps having side effects or other issues as a result of egg donation. I'm not sure that it's entirely risk free. It's not like sperm donation but is an invasive procedure.

I think it's difficult to stop exploitation in the fertility market full stop. Anything that's got a commercial element is deeply problematic. Anything that is circumnavigating UK rules is particularly problematic.

All fertility treatment should be through the NHS. It should be universally available across the country without the postcode lottery we have - it shouldn't just be a rich person thing if we are going to do it. There should be restrictions that are set by government. It should be properly regulated and overseen. We should not be importing 'product'. Once you have gone through x number of attempts you time out the system and automatically get the relevant mental health support if it is unsuccessful. We should be building in the possibility of failure into the system rather than having some women make large numbers of attempts - especially when it comes to egg donation because of how difficult it is to get those eggs.

And even then there's elements Im uncomfortable with. I don't believe that altruistic donations from someone you know are really a good idea because it adds a certain layer of problem. It would be better than the car crash we have though.

We have lots of scandals with fertility treatment which will eventually work their way out over time.

I donated eggs too.
Felt some pain during the procedure (despite sedation) but it didn't take that long to do. Fascinating to watch on a screen!
No regrets.
Wasn't offered and didn't want payment

I don’t see it as the same as surrogacy, but I don’t like it. I think the child should always be at the centre of any decision like this and I think it would be very hard to deal with in later life. As another poster has said, i wouldn’t consider it if I couldn’t have children naturally, I would hope to adopt.

I did egg freezing, it was physically and emotionally demanding and not risk-free. It seems a lot to ask of a donor. If there's a way of getting "leftover" eggs or embryos donated, when someone has finished with IVF, that might be more ethical.

I'm surprised by people saying they would choose to adopt. It's practically a non-starter where I am. The number of babies adopted by strangers from birth is in single digits, and international adoption not much higher.

Fostering is always needed, but it is a very different entity to becoming a parent, with family reunification always the goal.

In countries with the best social security systems, supports for parents, and access to contraception and abortion, adoption is even more rare.

I understand the perspective that surrogacy, egg donation etc. are unethical and that not being able to have a child is no excuse to use them. But its too simplistic to say "you should adopt." It's just not an option in any country where young women have options - i.e. not the United States.