Those opposed to surrogacy, what are your views on egg donation?

[wholeeverything]

I'm a gender critical woman with a high degree of skepticism about commercial surrogacy. I'm also facing the possibility of never having my own child.

Thinking hard about egg donation, I am conflicted about my own views about the ethics of it, from the point of view of the egg donor. What are your views? I am particularly interested in the views of those opposed to surrogacy. Do you see it as the same issue?

I feel like I cannot think objectively because of my own fertility issues. I am personally fine with the ethics of the child's rights, in that I would view it as similar to adoption with a child having the right to know their biological origins, and that then being something for me to decide if I am OK with at a personal level. Where there is full transparency, I don't see it as violating the child's rights.

But what about the young women selling eggs? Is it invasive, dangerous? Should it be viewed like surrogacy or selling an organ? Is it only considered by women in financial hardship, i.e. effectively coerced?

Well, it doesn’t benefit the adults who received the donor gametes, does it? It just denies them the option of finding out. I’m not sure it benefits the donors either. My guess is that it’s supposed to be safer for the children.

Wow this really took off all of a sudden.

I think it has, in fact, helped me to move past the tiny possibility of egg donation in my own situation. I think the payment levels, unlike surrogacy, are not sufficient to truly be the only motivator to give eggs - and indeed, having experienced infertility, I would if I could be comfortable donating my eggs myself, in another life. So, unlike surrogacy, my own conclusion is that finances alone aren't sufficient to explain egg donation.

However, I think it is clear there are SOME, though limited, risks, and I am not comfortable knowing I have chosen to place those risks on another woman. For me, that's the primary reason for deciding against it.

In relation to 'genetic heritage' I don't think there is a universal experience of how important or unimportant genetics are to one's identity. Amongst the adopted people I know, some placed enormous emphasis on their genetic heritage, while others had zero interest in looking into it. I suspect any young person who experiences a feeling of 'not belonging' may cling to their donor heritage as the reason for this - much as an adopted child might - even if this is not at all a part of the reason for their lack of belonging. I think for most children it is unlikely to cause much distress. Children generally need stable, loving adults as a baseline for feeling secure. Where this exists, I don't think you can point to any one factor to explain a lack of feeling secure - it is likely more complex.

So, as a woman who may never have my own children, I've decided against egg donation, and I dislike how it is pushed as the obvious next option by a highly profitable industry.

That said, the implication of this is that I will not raise a child from infancy. Adoption of young children - or even older children - domestic or international - is almost non-existent in many countries now, for very good reasons.

I support those who argue against egg donation, but they should not make comments about people needing to 'grow as a human' and adopt a child. It is, simply, not an option.

Sadly, many people who oppose surrogacy and egg donation appear to have zero empathy for those who are unable to conceive. And this is not going to do much to further their cause.

I should also say that I became pregnant a fortnight after posting this in desperation. Then I lost that pregnancy a few months later. It is a difficult time.

Sorry for your loss, OP, and that this is a hard time for you.

I’m very sorry for your loss OP. Having been through multiple (x10) miscarriages myself I do understand how hard infertility is and I certainly do have empathy for those struggling to conceive.

I don’t think though that opposition to surrogacy and egg donation means a lack of empathy for people in desperate situations - you can feel empathy while still being opposed to the routes which are presented to those women as solutions.

sorry for your loss OP

@VarioPerfect No, I didn't say that at all. I am wholly opposed to surrogacy and certainly have decided at a personal level I can't ethically come to terms with egg donation. So I did not say opposition to these means one lacks empathy for women. In fact, I have made the same argument to you about gay couples seeking surrogates. As a woman unable to have children, I should be allowed to voice my opposition to surrogacy without having my empathy questioned.

However a number of commenters on this post HAVE lacked empathy for women unable to have children. Comments suggesting women simply wait around until their 40s for lifestyle reasons before having children, for example, are just really removed from the realities of women's lives. Finding a partner and having the financial means and housing security to start a family before one's early 30s is something women should feel grateful for - not superior because of.

And, while I'm totally opposed to surrogacy, for example, I recognise the massive industry constantly manipulating women into thinking certain avenues and choices are 'normal.' Arguing the case against egg donation doesn't mean calling women who choose it selfish - not when an entire industry is promoting things like egg donation as normal and unproblematic.

One comment in particular suggested I should "grow as a human" and become OK with adoption or fostering. Adoption is not ethically straightforward. There are many, many reasons to argue that the removal of an infant or - more likely - a child from its home and permanent adoption by strangers in an entirely different context (culturally or socially) - both domestic and international - is very often not the right solution for a child, and only happens because many countries refuse to provide the intensive supports required in order to enable vulnerable women to be parents. Fostering should not be promoted as an alternative to becoming a parent because its aim should always remain reunification. And, in any case, outside the UK and US, adoption in western countries is now quite rare.

Very sorry for your loss :(

This old thread caught my attention. I donated eggs myself.

It is invasive, in terms of the medication needed in the run up to it plus the actual procedure. BUT I was undergoing IVF anyway under an egg share scheme.

Basically, I have NHS IVF which resulted in my first child..Then, a couple of years later, I tried a couple more cycles with NHS and didn't get anywhere... so I used an egg sharing scheme via a private clinic here in the UK.

This meant I got free IVF and medication if I donated half my eggs after egg extraction. The lady I donated to got pregnant and I didn't. I was genuinely pleased for her. I then went onto have a successful IVF cycle and got the family I wanted.

In terms of the ethics, I felt like this scheme worked well for the donor and the recipient. I was undergoing IVF anyway. I was screened for hereditary diseases. I'm on a list maintained nationally and the resultant child will be able to contact me if they wish when an adult via my last known address.

Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

Would also like to add that I know a family who adopted and it was a rocky road- they were pressured to adopt 3 children all at once (siblings).

The children had a lot of trauma from their previous upbringing which made life very difficult.

The council gave no meaningful support, essentially punishing and blaming the adopted parents for their parenting, rather than offering actual trauma therapy for children as needed.

The family in question have split up over the pressure, they still have the children, it's the parents who have divorced.

Adoption is definitely challenging (I have 2 adopted children). It isn't simply Plan B for when you can't get pregnant to be sure. You have to want to make a meaningful impact on the lives of traumatised children and know that life probably won't be plain sailing.

But I think it's a stretch to reject it as an option in favour of messing around with DNA like you describe. Infertility is obviously very difficult for many people but does that give us the right to a baby at any cost? What about the child's needs?

you're putting words in my mouth.

I was adding my personal experience of egg donation and saying adopting isn't a default option for infertile couples.

Can I check if I have understood this correctly, you donated an egg and this resulted in a successful pregnancy for another woman? You then had an egg donated by someone else and this resulted in a successful pregnancy as well?

My interpretation of what you said is that adoption is terribly challenging, which justifies egg donation. Yes, adoption is very challenging. But as an adopter I don't want people to be put off adoption or use donor eggs to avoid parenting challenges.

Nobody uses donor eggs to avoid parenting challenges. Obviously.

Assimilating children from another family into yours is not a normal parenting challenge.

Step parents do it all the time.

I just don't see any reason to start slagging off adoption on this thread.

Step parents aren't parents. I have two of them and they aren't remotely similar to my actual parents. They don't parent me, they aren't responsible for me, and when my step mum divorced my dad after 20 years I never saw her again, because she's not my mum. If my mum and her husband got divorced I'd never see him again either. It's regularly discussed on MN how step children aren't the same as your own children.

Why do you think step parents have anything to do with adoption?

Like donor conception parents have been slagged off?

She gave an honest account of her experience with adoption. Thats it. It's extremely similar to mine and why I wouldn't adopt. It's not all sunshine and rainbows and it's ok it talk about that.

No.
I had an egg collection. They retrieved 9 eggs. They gave me 5 eggs and 4 to the recipient.
From my 5 eggs, I got 3 embryos. I had 1 put back and 2 frozen and I didn't get pregnant. She had 1 put back and did get pregnant.

A few months later we tried with my 2 frozen embryos and I got pregnant.

I'm pleased I donated, some other lady was able to have her much wanted baby.

That absolutely is not what I said, is not what I meant and not what I think.

I replied to two separate points in two separate posts. You have made an assumption, a wrong assumption.

I'm in favour of egg donation, and understand it's not for everyone. I wanted to explain it from my own personal experience. It is indeed a stress to put your body under, but in my case, I was egg sharing and was having IVF myself so it made sense.

I'm in favour of adopting, but know from those close to me, that its very challenging and stressful. It's not a fertility cure and the children who are adopted need very special care, as do their parents. Telling infertile women to "just adopt" is ignorant and crass.

Right!

I've got 3 children, including a set of twins. The impact this had on my life was huge and extreme. Massive highs and massive lows. We've come out the other side now, thank god.

My friend has adopted 3 children. They have so many psychological issues. The children need support and so do the parents. Sadly, the parents were let down badly by the council. Sadly the parents split up due to pressure. My friend still has their adopted children but these children still have their psychological issues... because these are lifetime scars based on what they experienced from their birth parents. A whole different level of "parenting challenge" than what I encountered.

Separate issues anyway.

If that was aimed at me, it needn't be. In case you didn't realise by all of my other posts, I didn't slag off adoption. I wanted to point out that in the UK, it's not easy, the children are usually traumatised (because adoption is a last resort) and therefore should not be casually bandied around as a quick solution to infertility.

Well said.