This is the problem

[sladtheinkaler]

Twice this month, my thirteen year old daughter has been yelled at by men in cars. Both times, she was walking home alone, in her school uniform. She is quite small and looks thirteen.

The first time was a car full of teenage boys. The second time was a middle-aged man alone in his car. Both times they slowed down and leaned out of the window to yell at her.

The first time, she came home and sobbed. The second time she was clearly shaken but was determined to shrug it off.

She has two choices:

1. Continue to live her life in a way that allows predatory men to let her know that she is not safe.
2. Shrink her life and her world to keep herself safe. Always get lifts to and from school. Never be alone. Never walk anywhere.

It is so fucking unfair, and I am angry.

What do you mean by yelled at? For what? As in she’s just walking and they yelled at her? I’d say tell her to take regs unless eg she walked out in front of a car and they’re just angry assholes. Did nobody step in for her? Twice is horrific. Saying that I don’t think your two options are the only options.

No, she was walking on the pavement in our suburb. No one else around.

The first one yelled "the N word and some swears" and they all laughed. The second one just made a growling / barking noise.

Tell me the other options.

My younger daughter got this all the time. I mentioned a particularly nasty incident informally to a policeman who told me to teach her car brands - she could then report it (registration details are better but harder to remember) and they could check cctv. But that only works in a built up area and is only for the really nasty incidents. Tbh my daughter rarely went out on her own because of the hassle. Not just men in cars but guys in the street, on buses..

For being female.

It's a thing men do. Lean out of car windows and shout at women - sometimes words (although it's rarely possible to hear the details - edit: which is probably for the best), often just non-verbal shouting.

Fuck knows why.

sladtheinkaler

Fucks sake that’s terrible op, I’m so sorry x I don’t know your options but they can’t be such extremes- we’ll unfortunately have to find a middle ground as we can’t go around scared but saying that I don’t know how.

I can't believe this is still going on and I'm so sorry for your daughter.

It's only in my 40s that I dropped the automatic/subconscious habit of sucking in my stomach every time I passed any man. I realise I did it to try to prevent being heckled at for being a woman.

My daughter goes out with large headphones on but with no sound playing. It's her signal that she won't hear them or react if this happens to her.

Here's an example from our local secondary, probably 2019.

A bystander rang the school to say they'd seen a member of the public stop and attempt to drag a kid into a car at 3.30pm.

Everything kicked off, police, parental texts, school assembly, walking in groups.

Gradually it all died down and was a bit forgotten.

What actually happened was a tall sixth form lad darted across the road right outside the school and when the car driver screeched to a halt, the lad stuck his middle finger up. The driver opened his door at which point the lad ran off with his mates.

I find it fascinating that the bystander and school sprung into action and got the police involved, I cannot think of a similar situation over the 8 years my two daughters were at the school.

Earlier that week, my 13 year old DD had been shouted at by blokes at 3.30pm walking along the main school road. Never even bothered to tell me because it was so common. No one, ever, called the school despite her uniform (trousers, not that it should matter) and below average height.

We highlight the decent men in our community & DH is a good sort. I feel it's important to make girls confident in the world, to take up space, to shrug it off. And if you witness shouting at girls from a company vehicle, report them and boycott the company.

Sadly, she’s going to have a good few years of putting up with this behaviour.

I’d echo the comments about recognising car brands. She could write down the registration plate or take a photo (if she has a phone and the opportunity to do so safely).

And then report it.

I really want to buy some of those to actually listen to music, but I wouldn't be able to listen in public, because I wouldn't be able to hear someone running up behind me. I say someone, I mean a man with ill intent of course. I'm in my fifties. Fuck them all.

Yeah she doesn't listen, she just wants to look 'unavailable'

Did you grow up in a cave or something? Men have been doing this to women as long as men have been able to drive cars. They probably did it from fucking horseback too.

I literally couldn't tell you how many times I was yelled at, whistled at and one memorable time barked at by men in cars. I think it started when I was 12 and continues to this day.

JudgeBread

I’ve honestly never been yelled at randomly by a man randomly, only once or twice with them being road rage assholes. Grew up in Dublin.

I grew up in a small town in Scotland where everyone knew everyone else and we didn't have anything worth visiting the town for, so we rarely had strangers. And I never experienced what my daughter has. I have been with her while men have shouted stuff at her (def not aimed at me!). She says they do it even if she is with her boyfriend.

She has two choices:

Continue to live her life in a way that allows predatory men to let her know that she is not safe.

Shrink her life and her world to keep herself safe. Always get lifts to and from school. Never be alone. Never walk anywhere.

Or choice three: tell them to fuck off/ignore them and carry on with her day.

I was shouted at by men in cars from the age of 9. I think the most important thing is to tell her not to take it personally and it's not her fault.
A photo of the car and numberplate to send to the police would help to cut this behaviour out.

Same.

Happened to me last summer and I am 70! From behind, of course. They must've been thrown when they got past 😆

It's appalling behaviour and I'm so very sorry that we have to teach girl children that this shit happens to girls, find ways to explain patriarchal predation without scaring the bejeezus out of them, and teach them to shrug it off or get angry while also teaching them basic safety (never get within arm's reach of a male in a vehicle, try to record details if possible, yell very loudly if touched, know where you could go for help).

Also agree it's very important to highlight the existence of decent men. Only some of them treat us like prey. Those men are rude, antisocial and do not dictate our actions or movements: we may still walk proud and free.

Same all over again for racism. What a world. And those guys would be indignant if you told them they have white, male entitlement.

choice three: tell them to fuck off

Please don't. Men like that would enjoy beating up a woman even more than just verbally abusing her. I wish they would fuck off to hell, but I have encountered too much male violence to risk telling them. I recommend ignoring them.

I might not have explicitly told them to fuck off but that was very much my mental reaction. Obviously it's pathetic behaviour on their part, but as teenagers we didn't give these types much headspace - and I think that's the healthiest way to react. We know it's loser behaviour and we judged them for it and got on with our lives.

Choice 3 is just an add on to choice 1. It doesn’t stop them, it just engages your anger more than your fear.

At a minimum I would have her wearing a bodycam and then report the next one to the police

For airpods, they have a 'transparent' mode, which lets you hear both the music, and what's going on around you - I'm guessing the max (over-ear) versions have the same. Pricy though.

It won't be bullet-proof, but is there a practical way of disguising the fact she is a schoolgirl? Could her schoolbag look like any old sportsbag, but contain a loose anonymous cover- up costume for when she is alone on the route home?

Maybe something like a thin hoodie to conceal the top half, and baggy joggers to cover the legs, with the skirt pushed inside. It would make her look not particularly interesting, and certainly not the stereotype 'schoolgirl- in uniform' to inflame all those men with a schoolgirl fetish. Or, worse, to attract attention of a man cruising round looking for a chance to drag a schoolgirl into a car.

Unbelievable and utterly impractical.

Firstly why should she have to do this?

Secondly, most people can identify males from females at a glance. It has nothing to do with clothing or bags - it's posture, stance, gait, height.