Why women aren’t having babies

[SmudgeHughes]

I saw a young woman post this on social media recently and thought it was so well-expressed that I had to share.

‘The problem isn’t that men want more children but that too many men want them without restructuring their own lives to carry the burden of parenthood.

If men matched their desire with an equal willingness to parent like taking the night shifts, booking the appointments, shouldering the career sacrifices then women would be more open to the idea.

Until then, women are simply refusing to be the ones who pay the highest price for someone else’s dream.

That’s not selfishness but wisdom hard earned through centuries of women being told that family is everything only to find out that "everything" really meant everything is theirs to do.

Women are increasingly unwilling to subsidize men’s dreams with their own exhaustion. They are making rational decisions about their capacity and saying no not because they don’t love children but because they know love alone doesn’t neutralise burnout, stalled careers, unaffordable childcare or the silent erosion of identity that comes when one partner carries the bigger share of parenting.

So when men say they want more children women hear something different like, I want the idea of more children but I haven’t accounted for who will actually raise them.

It’s similar to someone who dreams of a puppy without calculating who will walk it or clean the accidents on the rug. Women have woken up to a truth previous generations often swallowed.’

There was more; just thought it was beautifully expressed.

Yes OP that’s correct. I was absolutely flabbergasted when I had recently given birth to my first (and only DC), all anyone could seem to ask was when was a sibling coming? Never, I thought as I drudged through the nursery pick ups, drop offs and sick days. Whilst my c-suite husband ducked off to his soho office 5 days a week, unfettered by the entire experience bar the financial implications. Something usually has to give in this situation and it’s often the mums sanity, or career, probably both. I think parenting is highly overrated.

I was thinking about this the other day. DH’s sister recently had her second baby. The four couples we are closest to won’t be having children, three through choice, one for medical reasons. I decided I didn’t want them before I met DH and he’s not bothered by it. I do like children but the burden of carrying them, delivering them and then raising them outweighs the pros of going without. We’re all mid-late 30s and I can’t see anyone changing their minds.

And people will try to gaslight you by pretending that it's all your fault that you chose a bad egg and all that nonsense, you should have chosen better etc.

Truth is that he's an entirely typical egg. Men as a group just don't share the load fairly.

Fair comment.

I think women should take this into account at this point though. Like: if you want a 50/50 overall marriage, take into account that you will probably do more kid stuff and household stuff even with an "egalitarian" partner*, so make sure you choose someone who IS going to at least contribute his share in the traditional male domains.

Like, don't go for the Mumsnet special of "we're very feminist and egalitarian, so DP is a stay at home dad after he got made redundant and I'm funding my own maternity leave, but we seem to have fallen into a pattern where I take care of the kids too? How did this happen? He was wearing a 'This is what a feminist looks like' t-shirt when we met! I guess I shouldn't complain because I'm the only one who can breastfeed them so it's probably fair and IABU..."

@SmudgeHughes If men matched their desire with an equal willingness to parent like taking the night shifts, booking the appointments, shouldering the career sacrifices then women would be more open to the idea.

And yet, women have children with men who aren't willing to parent all the time...

And we’re seeing fertility free-falls around the globe, which everyone is trying to understand.

I think it’s an area of life where the sexism is hidden, until the baby arrives and all of a sudden it isn’t hidden at all. You feel broadly equal in life and work in many ways. And then after a baby the scales fall from your eyes.

NHS maternity care is all wrong culturally, women routinely belittled and ignored, the idea of consent is still patchily applied, so many women are traumatised even when care is ‘safe’. Suddenly you realise if men gave birth it would be completely different. Tick box appointments and very little substantial support for most mothers. Kind staff doing their best against systemic failures and less kind staff in the mix too.

The village doesn’t exist in the same way it did. We were never meant to be home alone all day with a small baby. There is a lack of respect for how difficult caring for small children is. Men are routinely primed to be expected to sleep at night because they are the ones who have to go out to work.Talk about provision for parents like parking spaces and watch the vitriol about lazy entitled mums who don’t appreciate how easy they have it.

Before DC, chores might have been shared equally. But after a mat leave, usually the mother shoulders the household and childrearing, while the father is at football, out cycling or on a stag do. Also whilst working and run ragged with drop offs and ill toddlers up all night. And if you complain about this situation, your responsibilities now extend to suddenly managing the father’s performance as a husband and father and coaching him to step up and improve. My STBXH would see me drown before he lifted a finger and this is such a common experience.

I don't get what's obscure.

Educated, economically liberated women don't need to have kids. Having kids means the animalistic body stuff (everyone see that home birth horror thread the other night??), health harm stuff, spending our every waking (and many sleeping) moments doing housework and childcare, pretend to find putting the block in hole over and over and over FUN CLAP!!! Every Saturday at rugby or ballet or frigging tennis.

It just seems like the worst job ever and you're not even paid.

If you want and love babies then fine but otherwise... I couldn't care less if my husband does 99% of childcare the other 1% would be dreadful.

Being childfree is brilliant (unless you have the hormonal urge, which many people do not).

@DervlaGlass
So what explains the collapse in birth rates
in uneducated poor downtrodden women
as its happening too ?

NO country has a rising birth rate
all of Asia is well below replacement now
as is South America
along with Europe and North America and Australasia

Almost every country is seeing better lives for women now even Afghanistan has better access to contraception for women (within a country, those who have most kids tend to be poorest, those who have least the richest). We don't have kids because objectively it's boring and it sucks. Love can transcend all but if you don't love them you're in trouble.

even Afghanistan has better access to contraception for women

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Most men who want to be parents are willing to actually parent the child though. And men help more with children today than in previous generations. So how do you know men's attitudes are the reason for falling fertility?

What about the rising cost of living? Modern life forces both people in a relationship to work. Buying a house is an unattainable dream for many people.

I’d be interested to know whether the woman who is quoted has children or not?

Clearly, elements of parenting can be hard work and relentless and unequal. BUT, I find some of the quote a bit depressing. There are certain things that are very difficult to quantity, and I think the joy of parenthood is one of them. Objectively, there are many cons, but I personally find that these are hugely outweighed but intangible pros. I appreciate that this is not the case for everyone - but it is still a valid perspective and one that I think is shared by many of my friends.

I am fortunate to have a great husband and a great career. My grandmothers had far fewer options in both of these areas. Our choices now are very different, and I think it is brilliant that the choice to be child free is celebrated, but I think it’s a shame that motherhood is often seen as some hideous drudgery that modern women are too savvy to entertain.

It may not be possible to have all of the things all of the time, but it is often possible to find a way to balance many of the things that matter to you.

Nice try.

But? to quote Blackadder "it was Bollocks"!

We are naturally predisposed to care for our babies. Men are not. They provide, protect so that we don't have to. At least from an evolutionary point of view.

Women aren't having children because we don't need to. We can have a life by ourselves, so kids become a choice, not a means to an end, or even what's expected.

Men have nothing to do with it.

If it's fine for a woman to decide not to have children, then it's also fine for a man to make the same decision. Last time I checked, we didn't need a man's encouragement to do anything.

Mothers in the 60s & 70s didn't do building blocks all the time or constant hobbies. Children were expected to entertain themselves a lot or play out. France has a strong culture of children fitting in with the adults & mothers not becoming their slaves,

Other places like Holland & Scandinavia emphasise children playing out & walking to school from a young age (with good schools nearby as in Finland etc)

The parenting culture now is crazy, but it is in our power to change this.

We need to campaign for safer streets, less cars (also good for health & environment) & good schools nearby.

Lovely post

Also parenting culture now as I say makes women drudges. It didn"'t use to be this way. Mothers now, whether SAHM or not, spend more time with their children than 1960s mums did

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-now-spend-twice-as-much-time-with-their-children-as-50-years-ago&ved=2ahUKEwiZqqqaiYKQAxVhaEEAHTtaBEAQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0RS-idWHNILw0SaKskdwRI

Why should we give up on men being egalotarian contributors though?

Children need to exercise more & food is more processed, so obesity is going up badly. It's crap for mums but I DO think a sweet 70s lunch like you describe is not OK.

Why can't school provide cooked lunch?

Moreover, on the birthdays, we need to resist pester power. No child needs all that money. A simple birthday can be just as good. If we cave to peer pressure all the time, nothing will change.

Children need to exercise more & food is more processed, so obesity is going up badly. It's crap for mums but I DO think a sweet 70s lunch like you describe is not OK.

Why can't school provide cooked lunch?

Moreover, on the birthdays, we need to resist pester power. No child needs all that money. A simple birthday can be just as good. If we cave to peer pressure all the time, nothing will change.

Schools contact more now?

Why, and is it necessary?

Boys esp need fathers & suffer when they lack this vital role model.

Are hobbies compulsory though?

Yes but it takes two to tango. I hate how this is all laid at women's door as if we can reproduce spontaneously and it's nothing to do with men.

Well they could have a C section...less risky than natural at least the way the NHS is now.