How do you (or would you advise someone to) stay safe travelling by train?

[JFDIYOLO]

I've commuted on and off for a long time and had two nasty experiences at the hands of train creeps when I was much younger.

Both times, I froze and was meek and never reported it.

So my advice would be:

Travel! - get out there and stride - and be alert and aware.

Don't assume rush hour is safer - gropers and thieves love crowds.

Keep alert on the station before you get on, and if there's someone behaving oddly, use a different entrance or wait for the next train.

Sit on an aisle seat so you can't be squished against the window and can move elsewhere.

Don't settle and spread - stay mobile, keep your stuff easy to scoop and shift.

Keep phone & purse in your bag not on the table and keep your bag on you - a cross body bag is harder to nick.

Don't fall asleep or get completely lost in a book or podcast - keep alert.

Use a single ear pod rather than headphones so you can hear if something's happening.

Look and listen about you, so you can notice odd behaviour and switch to another carriage or get off.

Know how to call for help on the train or platform.

Some will go on about victim blaming, it shouldn't be on us to stay safe etc etc. But just as we lock our home, car, bike etc, we can increase our own security.

What would you advise?

Well I like the window seat, so I’d advise anyone to have it it if that’s where they wanted to sit. Plus actually I’d rather not have to stay alert for someone wanting the seat next to me and potentially having to clamber over me to get it.

as for the rest, some of it is common sense and some is complete overkill unless getting a train through a war zone.

sorry you had a bad experience, that’s awful but I think some of your advice would probably cause someone to be more fearful and sit there all twitchy instead of just getting on with a journey they’ve every right to be on.

Move if you feel uncomfortable. As part of a much larger piece of advice, don't ignore your needs and #BeNice instead of doing what you want to do.

Save the British transport police (61016) text number in your phone (if travelling in Britain). Otherwise stay reasonably alert, particularly at stations but also try to enjoy your journey!

Don't sit in an empty carriage, or one with only one man, or only a group of men, in it.

And as a result of one of my experiences - don't sit smiling and and nodding and giving more and more personal information that he now thinks he's entitled to. Absolutely - BeNice / BeKind needs to get lost.

It depends on the situation with the window seat. Most of the time I would go for it and not worry, but in some circumstances (when it's quieter).

When it's quiet/there a lot of spare seats I don't think it hurts to put your bag on the seat besides you. There is nothing creepier than being on an almost empty train/bus and some guy sitting right next to you. When it's busier it's not that it's automatically safe because it's busy. However, far more normal people will sit next to you because it's a spare seat. So the chances of the person who takes the seat being a creepy weirdo are automatically much lower (like picking from a bag with only a red ball in it compared to 1 red. All and 100 green balls)

The only one of those I’d recommend is moving if you feel uncomfortable fur any reason. I was always quite nervous if doing that when I was younger.

(oh when I said about putting a bag on the seat obviously not a handbag. I meant more the sort of bag with your crisps in, or a coat). But only when it's quiet or it's antisocial.

I never sit in the window seat as I don’t want to feel hemmed in by a man. I have had men asking me to move over to the window seat so they can sit in the aisle and I just say “No, but you’re welcome to sit by the window.” I’ve had men persisting in asking me to move and I just repeat “No this is my seat”.

Having been on the receiving end of train creeps in my younger days I would echo the advice to move if you feel uncomfortable. I've ended up feeling very threatened but worrying about being seen as over-reacting/unkind/weird if I try to move away when some creepy man starts asking inappropriate questions. I changed my stance on this when a train creep that was a frequent traveller on my commute followed me to my car in the dark (at the end of a fairly deserted line) and tried to get in my car. When I told station staff they said he'd not actually done anything criminal so they couldn't do anything and I'd probably misunderstood and he probably just wanted to chat, or thought I might offer him a lift. After the very real that this man, who had 'just wanted to chat' (=ask increasingly inappropriate questions) all journey, was going to attack me I have stopped caring if other people think I am being 'a bit much'. My advice would be to move away the second someone makes you feel uncomfortable (or of course ask them to move if you think you can do that safely).

My advice to less vulnerable train users (ie not lone females) is to call out creepy behaviour if you can do so safely. I had encountered the frequent train creep mentioned above several times before this incident. Each time he chose to sit next to a lone female (several times me) despite there being lots of other seats and to keep asking questions when I/she made it clear (trying to read a book/ignoring them/one word answers) that this was not welcome. If I/she answered his questions he asked increasingly inappropriate questions and if I/she didn't answer he made a fuss about me/her being rude to him. On each occasion there were larger men/groups of men in the carriage who must have heard but no one ever said a thing. I firmly believe that if he was challenged just 50% of the time he would quickly stop.

I travel by train regularly and really don’t consider it a perilous activity that requires me to be on high alert at all times. I use common sense and get on with my life. I find so many Mumsnetters to increasingly catastrophise normal life -on one thread a poster said she based decisions for her children on what a coroners report would say.

Honestly, I’m commuting for my job, not clearing mine fields in a war torn country. I think I can put in 2 ear buds, look out a window or read a book

Precisely. I was in a near-empty train with only one group of people two carriages back. It was late evening. A man boarded - had a choice of two entirely empty carriages - and chose the seat directly across the aisle from my own aisle seat. (I don't take window or table ones anymore).

I got up and moved to where the group was sitting. Don't ever care about giving offence - behaviour like his is not neutral.

Also, OP's advice is not misplaced. Anecdotally I've known I've felt more threatened as a lone female on our railways since the Covid lockdowns. I've had men film me, men doing the leg-brush, men pushing up against me, inebriated men trying to invade my personal space, a man circling me like a shark in a deserted and dark railway station - who stood right next to me (empty platform) as a train approached and then didn't board it. I was never so happy to see the arrival of any train in my life. Evidently the conductor also thought his behaviour weird: he stood in the middle of the platform for nearly a minute watching the guy walk away.

This is just one woman's personal experience. More recently statistical evidence has borne out that women are indeed on the receiving end of a spike in harassment from men (and worse) on trains over the last five years. I use alternatives now, particularly at night, unless unavoidable.

It's nothing new.
Train creeps used to be known as mashers and the problem was partially why women took to wearing huge hat pins for use in tunnels when the train went dark

I'd probs tell them to mind the gap.

I was in the crowd waiting to exit the Tube when I felt a man groping my arse. I grabbed his hand, swivelled round and pointed at him, announcing what he'd been doing in a loud, clear voice. It was one of my best moments...

He thought he could use the dense crowd to get away with his crime. Instead the crowd trapped him where he stood. He stood there while everyone stared at him in disgust, some muttering. Slimy bastard was absolutely mortified. Ha bloody ha!

I have told DD to stay near other women if possible, or station staff. If possible on the train, sit with groups of mixed people/women, and at the back so she can see the whole carriage. If anyone is really drunk and bothering her, leave and find the guard. (we often get footie/rugby fans on that line).

In the station, I told her to stay out of the waiting room, and be visible to staff.

DD17 has only caught the late train home once, it is at 9.20pm. She went into the waiting room and a man came in, clearly with "issues". He proceeded to throw packets of soup at her, put his hat on her head which covered her eyes, and wave a golf club at her. Luckily the station staff came into the room and asked if she was ok, and she left the room with them. They were obviously aware of this man and realised that she was on her own with him.

She laughed about it when home, but was shaken at the time. We gained 3 packets of tomato cup-a-soup and a bobble hat .

A second post on the topic. I was sitting on quiet carriage in the Tube in central London. My journey that evening would take me close to the end of the line. A man got in and, although there were seats free, came to strap hang near me.

As the train emptied he moved until it was just the two of us, him standing directly in front of me. My stop arrived and just before the doors closed I leapt up and got out. Sadly the man just managed to make it out too.

I ran to the exit and, blessings, there was a guard at the barrier. I just said breathlessly "there's a man following me" and this wonderful man didn't ask any questions, he just took off running. When he came back he told me the man had jumped on another train though he'd radio through.

This was back in the 80s, so no CCTV etc. I will always be grateful to that guard. No questions, no doubt, no victim blaming. No. Just immediate action. Because if that man on the Tube had been able to follow me out on the street goodness knows what might have happened.

This.

Maybe I'm lucky, but pretty much this. I'm on a train several times a week and it's simply not worth the trade off for me in terms of headspace to do more than a couple of those. I don't want to live my life in a state of perpetual anxiety and doing all of those would contribute to doing so.

Stay well back from the yellow line

Yes I had an odd experience the other day. I was commuting to London on a train which has 3 seaters where the middle seat really isn't wide enough for a normal person. I usually sit in the aisle seat because I don't like being next to the heater apart from anything else but sat in the window seat because I wanted to charge my phone and the socket is under the window.

People very rarely sit in the middle unless the train is really busy. You can see where this is going,

Man gets on and plonks himself down right next to me. I assumed he was with someone and they'd sit next to him. But no. I gave him a look which he did spot because he said "that was a suspicious look". I just returned to my book but I should have said why are you trying to hem me in when there are million other places you could sit in this carriage. It was such an odd thing to do. If I'd not been charging my phone I would have probably moved seat.

Always sit in the aisle seat. It gives you control.

And don't forget to mind the gap!

As a member of on board train crew I would suggest sitting near the rear cab where the guard is located and if you feel uncomfortable tell the onboard staff or text BTP but be aware that unless you’re travelling somewhere like London or another big city it’s unlikely that BTP will do more than call or text

What a smug and unhelpful (not to mention naive) comment to make. This is a thread trying to support women who have a healthy fear of being in an enclosed unguarded public space where it’s well documented that disturbed and predatory men do routinely target women and girls. And actually not just the whackos, there are very ordinary men who might take the opportunity to grope someone or make them uncomfortable too, just because they can. Lots of men out there are like that.

Yes you might ‘feel’ safe but then everyone is safe until they’re not.

Same, I’m sorry people have had bad experiences but luckily I too have never really considered train travel a situation where I need to be on high alert or to choose a particular seat due to other passengers.

I get the train for work all the time, I just go about my business and actually prefer a window seat so I’m not getting nudged by people walking up the aisle.

If I’m listening to something on my headphones the whole point is to block out everything else, I don’t want to half listen to something!