I feel sad about Angela Rayner

[Neededa]

OK, I am left leaning so maybe I am already biased, BUT, I do feel sad that a woman who overcame early issues, who was “proper” working class, who didn’t speak the kings English, but rather with a proper local dialect, and achieved a high office without a single spoon in her working class mouth, has gone.

i do understand that many people will agree with what has happened. I would have been fuming if the story played out the way it had as a different party, and I understand that Angela had to go, BUT as a woman who believes in holding up other women, particularly those who aren’t born to certain families, or have expectations placed on them from word go, I do feel a bit sad this morning.

There was a working class woman in the House of Commons. A working class woman was the deputy prime minister of this country. It is not even 100 years since working class women could vote. I feel sad.

You’re wondering why Johnson and Cameron weren’t held to the same standard.

That is because Labour and Labour supporters and leftists general believe they are better than those in the right. That they are morally superior.

Well, you’d better make sure you are morally superior, then. No room for error. That’s the culture they’ve fostered and embedded themselves in.

Being a woman doesn’t exempt you from making sure your affairs are in order.

It’s a shame. But the fault is with her 100%. Not the media, not the Tories. Her.

(I get the impression you aren’t a working class woman yourself, OP (full disclosure, me neither). Perhaps that’s why you have rose tinted glasses on about this.)

Unless you are a Trust expert, of course you should seek specialist tax advice. In not doing so, shows she is unfit for office.

Sir Laurie Magnus said this

She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.

I completely disagree with Sir Laurie Magnus’ report when he says she acted with integrity referring herself. She only took action when her position became untenable.

When will the politicians (of all parties) learn that eventually the truth will out. No wonder our country is in the state it is.

Like who? MPs if found to be fiddling are generally jumped on by the media. And that’s how it should be.

I agree with you. I liked her and thought she was a force for good.
What she did was stupid. I find it hard to believe that someone with her complex situation wouldn't have taken professional advice but it seems she didn't. Nothing about her previous behaviour suggests it would be a deliberate act to defraud so I choose to believe it was a bad mistake.
The fact she resigned and owned her mistake says volumes about her character and integrity. Many politicians before her have commited far worse offences and not gone with such grace.
I think she's done a great deal of good and will hopefully continue to do so. Far too few women from her background make it into politics (the system is against them) and regardless of their political leanings we need more of them not less.

No, she did not “let all women down”. Nobody ever says of a man who screws up “he let all men down.”
And while I agree she screwed up, the letter from Lawrie Magnus makes it clear that there is no question about her integrity and good intentions.

Personally I have not said this, and also questioned myself as to my feelings and the affect of my political leanings on how I feel about the whole thing.
But if you really think that someone’s genitals have no impact on careers, achievements and impact on society then I have to disagree.
which is why I posted in the feminism board about feeling sad.

I agree with this. I feel really let down by her to be honest. The hypocrisy is staggering and I really dislike her use of the word "scum".

She wasn't given incorrect advice....she just didn't seek specialist tax advice. It is pretty disgusting that she's tried to blame the conveyancing firm for something that is her fault. That could ruin a business. Shame on her.

I was going to mention her when people were saying we have never had a working class female on the front benches but didn't think it would go down too
well!

OP I’ve been googling and you can be reassured that there are plenty of working class people left in government, but they don’t go on about it all the time. For example - Bridget Philipson was apparently brought up by a single mother on benefits in a mining town, David Lamont is the child of immigrants whose taxidermist father left the family. The difference is perhaps that they did very well at their state schools which enabled them to get to world class universities. They must have worked bloody hard to do that - I think that is admirable. Most of the government are state educated (but did go to uni). Perhaps it’s the fact that they don’t want play up their regional accents that makes them seem less ‘working class’. They will all be good at writing essays as graduates and as such have an excellent grasp of grammar, unlike Rayner. Not a judgment on Rayner, just an observation.

The conveyancers said that to cover their own arse. It’s unacceptable.

The penis and silver spoon is only a requirement of the left though. We’ve had female prime minsters and party leaders, just not Labour. We’ve had an Asian prime minister, just not Labour. And we’ve got a black party leader, just not Labour. John Major left school at 16, and like Rayner, didn’t go to university. He managed to follow the rules and still become PM. Thatcher didn’t go to public school either, and neither did May but the less said about that the better.

It’s a unique requirement of the Labour party that to lead it and tell the working class what’s best for them, sorry, I mean lead it, you need to be white, male, middle aged and privately educated 😂

The fact that she resigned shows nothing about her integrity- she waited until the report came out and the alternative was being sacked.

Ha ha no they not, plenty of examples of Tory MPs avoiding tax for themselves or others but not really being pursed by the Tory press or anyone else.

At worst they might get a days headlines.

Standards advisor for Johnson resigned because he was side lined, Ministers stayed in office when found to have broken ministerial code.

i do think she had to go but that aside I always got the impression that she worked very hard for her constituents, a tv interview with them last night seems to dispute this image, very few had anything good to say about her.
It seemed the consensus was that she put Westminster before her constituents.
That makes me feel sad as it does look like her ambitions were to get to the top not help her constituents

She did. Because women have to work that much harder to prove themselves. Every single day. It shouldn’t be that way, but we have to shout louder to get ourselves heard and justify ourselves because men, and sadly society, still think we can’t have it all. When we do get women in high profile successful positions it strengthens us.

Me too.

I'm sure so many people will be so glad to see a working class woman (especially a woman), fall.

If it was a Tory, we'd be up in arms, so I get it. But I'm sad too as she represented a lot for many people.

I really wish ALL politicians simply said to their accountant: what is the most I should pay? Then just pay it. Seems so many would avoid these 'scandals'.

Are you suggesting that it's ok for some politicians to behave in a corrupt and unethical manner because they paint themselves as a party of low moral standing?
All politicians should be held to account for poor behavior. Setting low standards for your party doesn't somehow exempt you from this. Although, I realise that the Tories seem to think it does.

I agree

Amazing that so many people know better than Lawrie Magnus-even though he had all the facts at his disposal……

We are fans of Angela Rayner in the house. I always hated how the press slagged off her dress sense, hair and appearance and people acted like she was stupid for speaking in a working class regional accent. She was an obviously intellegent and driven woman who came into politics for all the right reasons. She reminds me of '2 jags' Prescott - but he managed to ride that out, probably because he was male.

I don't condone what she did and I understand that as housing minister she had to go. But I do think it is a loss, and she was worth ten of the Eton lads who had their careers handed to them on a platter.

They’re not pursued because they took advice and made sure it was above scrutiny. Not moral, but all legal. Like I suspect many in the Labour Party do too. Rayner obviously lacked the intelligence to do the same and payed the price.

You see, this is exactly what’s made me sad about it all. Boris Johnson had so many children that even hardened political pundits can’t reliably even COUNT them, yet a woman dares to rise the one of the highest positions in the country and all anyone can really throw at her is “great parenting”? Ffs. How many houses do you think he has? Or Farage? The difference is that they were born wealthy and have have had the advice of the best family tax consultants since they were children. Raynor did not. She had a lapse in judgement in not obtaining that advice for herself and she has paid with her career instead.

"I do understand those of you who either disagree with Labour policies, or who are disappointed by what you believe are policies that aren’t “left” enough for those that want more."

I don't think anyone has made any remarks like that. Where people have stated their position has generally been just to give some context to their remarks about Rayner.

It's been interesting to read the different comments so far, especially those that believe she has done nothing wrong and/or what she has done was not enough to cause her to have to jump before she was pushed.

In the past, she has said that she was committed to "stand up for Labour values". If she stayed, then it would appear now that "Labour values" include possibly dodgy affairs with trusts and misleading the HMRC - not a good look.

Well instead of fixating on the fact that she’s a woman from a working class background, maybe you should look at the circumstances that lead to her resignation.

No, NO, NO ! You are completely wrong and misleading others with that statement ! You're also potentially damaging the reputation of the conveyancers involved here with your misinformation.

A conveyancer needs to know whether the property they are dealing with is their client's main property or a second/third etc property to be owned and they ask the client for that information.
The client tells them the answer to this question or ticks a box indicating which it is. Only then can the conveyancer calculate the SDLT based on what their client is declaring.

It is the client's responsibility to be honest with what they tell the conveyancer.
If the client is unsure due to some complexity over their residence situation the onus is very clearly on them to seek advice to avoid a costly mistake and conveyancers make this clear by means of what you refer to as a "flimsy disclaimer" but which is actually advising the client to be sure they have made a correct legal declaration in respect of the matter.