Lily Philips on Triggernometry

[JamieCannister]

I can't see a thread anywhere on mumsnet, so why not and why not here?

Background - woman has sex with 101 men in a day for fame, money and the sex (if you believe her). Triggernometry guys interview her for over an hour.

What did everyone make of the interview? Has anyone watched it?

I watched the first half, give or take, and found it a difficult watch. I found it pretty disgusting and very boring. I did not trust that she was being honest, and even if she was I cannot see how listening to her benefits anyone. I thought KK and FF did OK, nothing more.

I feel they had her on because all publicity is good publicity, or because it would be interesting. Either way I think they were wrong... but on the other hand I support their efforts to speak seriously in long form with all sorts of people.~

Was there anything of note in the second half?

I felt really sad for her. She was like every phone-damaged child in the world. She's right that she's like all the other content creators. I thought her point there was sound. She's just taken it to its natural conclusion. She's commodified not just her fashion sense or her dancing ability or her political opinions, but her entire body. This is the true face of the attention economy.

I couldn't make it past about 25 minutes. I think they were treating her with kid gloves. Why did they have her on to just nod along to what she says with the gentlest of push backs here and there?
She came across as quite unintelligent - she doesn't have a basic grasp of what "controversial" means for example. I felt utterly depressed at the point I stopped watching the interview.

25 mins is about where I got actually, not quite half way.

The trouble with an interview like this is, IMHO, that other than kid gloves what can they do? Tell her that she is utterly disgusting, and what she did is worse (and come across like the patriarchy dictating to women about sexual morality) and that she has no hope at all of settling down with a good, mentally healthy, normal man? Say "we don't believe you, you're clearly deeply mentally unwell, whether the issues are with your brain itself, or trauma / abuse influcted on you. Please stop lying and tell us honestly"?

I think that there is a strong argument that the people calling for her NOT to be on Triggernometry were probably right... on the other hand surely we are nothing if we can't at least try to speak and listen to everyone (and the one's we think are problematic arguably most of all so we can work out how to counter them)

I don't see that she needs to be countered. She's not a politician, or a criminal. She's just a really damaged young woman self harming out loud. There are lots of people living lives that . It's not illegal to make bad choices. Being against prostitution doesn't mean being against prostitutes.

I don't understand the fascination. Are we now giving free publicity to sex workers? When did selling sex become news?

She sells sex and makes a lot of money from it and all these documentaries and interviews are driving more clients and publicity her way.

I agree with this.

Well, she is putting out an incredibly militant and potentially fatal (to people who listen) message that extreme promiscuity, and porn (including sex where the men have not been tested for STIs) is absolutely fine and dandy. One could argue that this is one of the most horrible anti-woman messages out there.

She seems reasonably eloquent and not stupid stupid, but she is not great brain.

I am trying to listen to a bit more. At around 30 mins give or take she mentions how she would like to settle down and have kids one day (she is 23 years old now). They ask what her future kids might think. Her responses show a massive naivity. Firstly she seems to say "I'll tech my kids sex work is fine so they won't have an issue". Totally ignorant view of how parenting works. Secondly she says that "in 20 years sex work will be normal as we keep talking", seemingly missing that in 20 years she'll be damn close to being too old for kids, if not already too old, and that these things go in cycles, not just one way, and if anything we are starting to enter a conservative (and maybe hard right too) pushback against what the left would claim is progressive liberal values like "sex work is work". To be clear I identify (natch) as "progressive left and liberal" but I do not support prostitution or porn.

I fear she might find that in 20 years that her husband will have left (because her dating pool did not include the best and most mentally well-balanced of men), society will hate her bahaviour much more than it does today, and that her kids beliefs will be the complete opposite of what she is planning on teaching them.

I am more fascinated by how Triggernometry approached it that what she has to say (and the more I hear her speak the less interested I am in what she has to say, not least because I am not sure she is honest with herself or the audience).

Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect the sort of people into watching a woman allow 101 men to insert their penis into her vagina (probably a better description than "have sex", though of course I am assuming it was the vagina 101 times) in a day are perfectly capable of finding the most despicable porn without Triggernometry's help, and I am not sure that there is going to be a particualrly large amount of their listeners who say "nice interview - not heard about her before, must download all her content".

I tok have only watched about 25 mins. I’m not surprised by what she said, couldn’t really say she hated it and massively regrets it, I wonder how she’ll feel when she’s older?
The risk of sounding like my mum no decent man will want to marry and have children with her I don’t think.
Im glad my dd hasn’t done anything remotely like this. I’m glad my ds didn’t join in.

"I think it is extremely important that young girls are educated on what this job is and what it means to do this job".

Why is that, Lily? Would you say the same thing about hairdressing or the law? Or when you say "sex work is work" are you lying, because you know 100% (as we all do when we saw your shell-shocked face on the documentary) that it is "work" only to the extent you get paid, and that it is absolutely nothing like other work?

@JamieCannister She makes money by driving traffic to her webpage and content.

She sells sex, I'm not sure what people want to know. A lot of what she says, for example about boring wives and feminism is to create publicity and drive content to her site.

I see all these articles and interviews as part of the sleaze. Men have always been fascinated with sex workers.

I think that there are two factors at play... on the one hand "decent men" want a "decent woman" and decent women (according to many people) have the odd one night stand and a handful of boyfriends before marriage, they don't engage in extreme promiscuity or other extreme sexual practices, and they don't sell sex or porn.

But there is a correlation between behaviours and underlying psychology. Even if a decent man were to meet her and start to fall in love - overlooking her extreme porn past - I fear that he soon would see the underlying signs of trauma or other mental health issues and walk away, to go search again for a nice ordinary woman, with as few issues as possible, to settle down with.

Unless he is as fucked up as she must be then God help any kids.

What do you make of Triggernometry guys generally and what do you think about the way they conducted the interview (if you watched)? Are you surprised they had her on?

You're coming across as very judgemental and making a lot of assumptions.

I fear that he soon would see the underlying signs of trauma or other mental health issues and walk away, to go search again for a nice ordinary woman, with as few issues as possible, to settle down with.

You have no idea if she has trauma, mental health issues or if she's 'nice'. You're judging her by your own standards, seemingly with a mother/whore dichotomy.

She's not Jezebel doomed to be alone and atone for her sins. Many sex workers have partners.

I'm not sure what you writing out your imaginary slanging match with this person is to do with feminism tbh.

I think a debate about a particular sex worker and sex work, and the risk of normalizing and promoting sex work by having a porn performer on a mainstream podcast, is a fairly legitimate feminist issue.

I am very judgmental about a woman who allows 101 men to insert their penis inside her in a day, for cash and fame and she likes being a slut (her words, albeit paraphrased). I think I am in the vast majority for holding this view.

I am not assuming she has trauma. I know that lots of people in porn are in porn because of trauma, and have trauma because of porn. This is not controversial. Same with prostitution. Chances are there is trauma there (based solely on her actuons). Then look at her face at the end of the day on that documentary - I know a face doesn't tell us everything, but she looked broken.

There is undoubtedly a healthy middle ground between an idealised mother stereotype and someone who sells sex.

She is not a doomed jezabel, life is never that simple, but she is at risk of being one, at massive risk.

Yes, I agree you could have a legitimate argument, so make the argument - bring the analysis. But the comments you have been making where you address her directly, and where you call her utterly disgusting - this is not analysis - it's really personal and harsh. You're completely overshadowing your point with these attacks.

Then look at her face at the end of the day on that documentary - I know a face doesn't tell us everything, but she looked broken.
I haven’t seen the documentary, but I’ve seen a clip where she’s interviewed about the 100 and she cries.

I used the word disgusting twice. One that "I found it [I was referring to the first 25 minutes of the interview] pretty disgusting [because it made me think of the act]". I also said "Tell her that she is utterly disgusting" [an option of how they could have framed the interview].

I don't believe that I said that she is disgusting. But I do think having sex with 101 men in one day is disgusting, and I believe that my viewpoint is a majority one and uncontroversial amongst many various groups in society.

I am throwing out some thoughts. I am not seeking to make a point, I am interested in hearing what others think. Well, I am kinda making the point that I don't think sex work is work, or that doing sex work is great for the individual or wider society. Again, this is not some niche, uber-conservative opinion only held by a handful of religious extremists.

@JamieCannister

I am very judgmental about a woman who allows 101 men to insert their penis inside her in a day

It comes across that you're very judgemental, don't worry. I'm wondering why you're reading interviews with her when you've already made your mind up about the slut.

I think I am in the vast majority for holding this view.

I don't feel the same way and you have no way of knowing what the vast majority think. You're making more assumptions.

I am not assuming she has trauma.

I fear that he soon would see the underlying signs of trauma or other mental health issues and walk away,

Apparently you are.

Then look at her face at the end of the day on that documentary - I know a face doesn't tell us everything, but she looked broken.

So broken she immediately announced a plan to sleep with 1000 men.

There is undoubtedly a healthy middle ground between an idealised mother stereotype and someone who sells sex.

The mother/whore dichotomy is where women are judged as nice or nasty based on their sexuality. You're making assumptions that she's not a nice person. You don't know her so can't possibly know.

She is not a doomed jezabel, life is never that simple, but she is at risk of being one, at massive risk.

Yet you say she'll never meet someone or have children.

And you've started a thread on her, brought attention to an interview with her and are driving more traffic towards her.

Isn’t her mother her finance manager?
If this is the case, I feel pretty bad for LP and wonder what upbringing and hope she had.

She addressed that - she said (paraphrased) "I am stupid when it comes to money and business. My mum is great so she does my tax and pays my staff for me, and I pay her of course, but I am the one in control of everything."

I watched about half an hour and got bored too. She has no insights to share about why she does it. She isn’t interested in exploring why she thinks this is a totally legitimate way to make money or what the wider consequences it might have for other women (or men).

The Trig boys didn’t have many interesting places to go with the questioning. Mainly because she wasn’t particularly engaging with the only interesting issue, which is: why are you doing this?

I find it annoying that her take seems to be one of ‘I’m not like the other girls’ - in that other (boring) women want emotional connection and a small number of partners, whereas she likes sex (unlike those boring women), so shags anyone willing.

It’s black and white, dishonest thinking. Lots of my friends (and I) were fairly promiscuous when younger and had lots of emotion-free encounters as students, but later settled into good long-term relationships. It’s not either/or and, whatever she says, what she does really is extreme and harmful. I don’t say that from a position of judgement because I’m puritanical about sex or think it always has to be an expression of something deeper. I’m not - and I don’t. I am judgey about normalising this sort of behaviour, though. She says she enjoys sex, but this sort of behaviour isn’t sex as I know it. There’s nothing fun or playful or reciprocal about being used as a cum-dump.

The only interesting thing she said was that it has surprised her how disgusting lots of men are. That’s quite the take away. Maybe this is because the types of men who would use a woman’s body this way are not the best kind of men? Maybe she should aim a bit higher?