Feeling really let down by (gay) male friends

[BabyOrca]

I need some help unpicking my feelings and wondering if I'm alone.
I've felt really let down by gay male friends specifically following the SC judgment, I think it's because women have traditionally been a safe space for gay men. We've been there as allies, marching for Pride, supporting them as our friends but also more widely on a social level.
I feel gutted that among my friends at least, this doesn't seem to be returned now.
At the same time I'm struggling with the sense that you don't do something to get something in return.

Who don't share my views? What views are they? That the female sex is real, exists and have sex-based rights.

Are you genuinely saying there are lesbians that don't believe the female sex is real, exists and they have sex-based rights? Is that what you are saying?

I said some gay men. And you still don't get the point that you can support gay rights at the same time as supporting female sex-based rights.

The gay men I was talking about were the misogynistic men who don't believe the female sex is real, don't believe female as the oppressed sex exist and that we have sex-based rights.

I know that sex exists, that sex based protections and rights exist, and I can still advocate for some (not all) spaces to be available to groups by gender.
I have no issue with some gyms having gendered spaces rather than single sex spaces. Other gyms exist that provide single sex spaces. Not a single city in england has a refuge for VAWG that doesnt provide a single sex space. Some also provide space for women, including trans women.
I dont have to deny sex to say i dont have an issue with trans women joining women's groups. I understand the difference between sex and gender.

@BabyOrca I think it's because women have traditionally been a safe space for gay men. We've been there as allies, marching for Pride, supporting them as our friends but also more widely on a social level.

I am always confused whenever I see women seeking friendship in gay men.

Do you know all that stuff you hate about straight men? Generally speaking, it's a lot worse in gay men and gay culture.

I know that sex exists, that sex based protections and rights exist, and I can still advocate for some (not all) spaces to be available to groups by gender.

Not all? Then I'm afraid you'll be considered a TERF by many trans activists. The Stonewall mantra was "acceptance without exception", although they may have side-lined that one recently.

So no city in England has a VAWG refuge that doesn't provide a single-sex space; but in order to feel safe enough to heal, women fleeing from domestic violence need not just "a" single-sex space: we need whole single-sex environment.

sadmillenial doesn't seem to have much experience of VAWG or of trauma or the healing process; she could learn from those who have.

At the end of the day, gay or not, they're still men. Men will never understand what is to be female.

Oh god, I feel similar @BabyOrca about many male friends, but yes the ones I feel particularly abandoned by are my gay male friends. I keep waiting for them to stand up for women's rights as well, and it just never happens. It's beyond depressing.

I disagree to some extent. Many of my male gay friends have been open minded when I’ve said to them about the gender critical mindset. I have found this especially works when I explain it in a way that they understand as a minoritised group. So for example, being out as gay from around 12/13 is very different to coming out as gay at 38 once you’ve married and had children within a heterosexual relationship, The person coming out at 38 knows some of the struggles, but has had the privilege of being or appearing straight for 38 years. All of my friends got this analogy, and so I laboured the point that unlike with trans women, we CIS women didn't have the choice to stay in the closet.
However, I do think the trans focus of LGBTQ events has dominated, and maybe pushed for everyone to be in it together. I consider myself a member of that community and the pushing for us all to be trans allies really does make you doubt yourself at times.

Speaking as a woman who has quite a few gay male friends....I've got no illusions about the all-too-common predatory, violent, objectifying etc aspects of gay male sexual culture. My friends are mostly not super into hookup culture AFAIK but I'm certainly aware of what a Wild West it can often be with no women to rein it in.

The point is that this aggressive sexuality isn't directed to female friends. Women with gay male friends can bond over whatever draws them together & don't need to worry about whatever sexual adventures their friend might get up to at night.

Many gay men are all "TWAW" - until they want to rent a womb. Then they know what a woman is...

@AliasGrace47 The point is that this aggressive sexuality isn't directed to female friends.

Hang on... so it magically becomes OK just because women aren't involved?

Surely what's harmful for women is also harmful for men. If women are negatively impacted by men's behaviour, why would gay men not be affected by the behaviour of other gay men?

what a massive sweeping judgment! i speak as a previous user of VAWG services
i disagree with you, it doesnt make me women hating, it doesnt make me stupid and it doesnt mean you can belittle my opinion just because you dont like it

i know, many trans activists would consider me transphobic. However many don't, there are lots of trans people and groups who aren't as hardline or militant. Its like saying ALL feminists have the same point of view, we know there can be variance within a group. Trans people are no different.

as a gay male i have much more respect for my female friends than my male friends took them a while to accept female friends laughed and said o we no lol sorry yours are not as supportive

Im.wondering if its just easier ro relate to the person in. front of you instead of having to work out if they ' conform' to the category they've been assigned, or put themself in. There seems to be so.much mental gymnastics involved in all of this. Maybe your male friends are just the wrong ones and you'd just be better off finding new friends, who.kight also be male but are just better at friendships.