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Feminism: chat

Men and their shitness

45 replies

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 19:57

Not sure if this is the right place but I need a rant.

Its partly because of my own marriage to somewhat of a manchild but my tolerance of feckless thoughtless men is really starting to dwindle.

So many threads on here from disappointed women every year on Mother’s Day, and several throughout the year re forgotten or underwhelming birthdays. My DH is a nice guy but seems to be oblivious that he could play a part in making someone feel special. Despite my reminders he did nothing for MIL today and only called her at 6pm. Because she said “oh don’t worry” he thinks it’s all fine. But I don’t think it is fine. It’s shit that he puts in fuck all effort. Actions do speak louder than words after all.

It’s really not hard to sort something different or nice to acknowledge these few “special days” that happen throughout the year. Ok I get the commercial bullshit side but it can be fun too. It doesn’t have to be extravagant or expensive, and clearly some blokes have the emotional intelligence to make it a nice day but pretty sure these are the minority.

How the fuck are we in this situation where men get away with this lameness. How is it ok? Why wouldn’t you WANT to make someone you love feel special or acknowledged or appreciated??

caveat - we live abroad and its not MD here. And over 20+ years in to this relationship, I’m still frequently disappointed by DH’s lack of effort on special days. He’s a “nice guy” but making someone feel special just doesn’t enter his radar. I’m cross with myself for putting up with it, I’m cross with MIL expecting nothing, I’ve tried not to care and lower my expectations but then think why the fuck should I, why the fuck should we, women, tolerate this shitness?

OP posts:
Winifredtabago · 30/03/2025 20:05

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 19:57

Not sure if this is the right place but I need a rant.

Its partly because of my own marriage to somewhat of a manchild but my tolerance of feckless thoughtless men is really starting to dwindle.

So many threads on here from disappointed women every year on Mother’s Day, and several throughout the year re forgotten or underwhelming birthdays. My DH is a nice guy but seems to be oblivious that he could play a part in making someone feel special. Despite my reminders he did nothing for MIL today and only called her at 6pm. Because she said “oh don’t worry” he thinks it’s all fine. But I don’t think it is fine. It’s shit that he puts in fuck all effort. Actions do speak louder than words after all.

It’s really not hard to sort something different or nice to acknowledge these few “special days” that happen throughout the year. Ok I get the commercial bullshit side but it can be fun too. It doesn’t have to be extravagant or expensive, and clearly some blokes have the emotional intelligence to make it a nice day but pretty sure these are the minority.

How the fuck are we in this situation where men get away with this lameness. How is it ok? Why wouldn’t you WANT to make someone you love feel special or acknowledged or appreciated??

caveat - we live abroad and its not MD here. And over 20+ years in to this relationship, I’m still frequently disappointed by DH’s lack of effort on special days. He’s a “nice guy” but making someone feel special just doesn’t enter his radar. I’m cross with myself for putting up with it, I’m cross with MIL expecting nothing, I’ve tried not to care and lower my expectations but then think why the fuck should I, why the fuck should we, women, tolerate this shitness?

Well unfortunately you did put up with it and tolerate it for 20 plus years. I guess all you can do is try to make sure any younger women you know dont do the same.

Comedycook · 30/03/2025 20:07

I honestly don't know why you even care if he acknowledged his own mother on mother's day...I wouldn't have even reminded him.

ssd · 30/03/2025 20:14

Take some responsibility op. You are 20 years in. You could have left ling ago.

offmynut · 30/03/2025 20:18

Some love to moan.
You chose to stay for 20 year cant blame it all on him if it was that bad why you still there,
As above poster says you could have left a long time ago.

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 20:23

Something this year has snapped though. Maybe it’s age, probably it’s hormones but as I say, my tolerance is on its way out and I’m realizing that I’ve been part of the problem. This has been a wake up call for me. And I’m calling him out on it. We’ve had a lot of chats recently where I’ve said I can’t unsee this shit now and whilst I’m terribly sorry that this may feel like the goalposts are shifting, I will not accept it.

In any case, this thread isn’t about me specifically but more of a general rant given all the women out there disappointed and wondering how as a society we can un-do this. How have we got to the point where we have to point it out to men? WHY have we accepted this piss-poor thoughtlessness?

OP posts:
Winifredtabago · 30/03/2025 20:34

But please remember all the women happy in their relationships. There is more noise around moaning and complaining. You hear it more than you hear those that are content, because of the nature of it, especially on sites like this.

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 21:15

Yeah I get that MN is a modern day problem page so has a disproportionate amount of complaining.

And I’m also struggling a bit to see what is compromise and what is settling or turning a blind eye or downplaying your own needs.

But regardless, it usually feels like it’s the woman who is doing that. If I look at my friends, the vast majority tolerate something - whether a hobby that takes up family time, whether it’s laziness around the house, whether it’s a wandering eye, whether it’s thoughtlessness or mild uselessness. Maybe there are plus-sides that offset that. After all no one is perfect and no one relationship is perfect but I bet there are way less disappointed men on Father’s Day than women on Mother’s Day.

OP posts:
Winifredtabago · 30/03/2025 21:24

Yeah I understand. I think a lot of it is just men being very different to women. I'm sure there are plenty things women do that drive men up the wall 😊

NPET · 31/03/2025 00:37

Sorry to hear what you say but feel free to rant.
I'm 21 and I'm TRYING not to accept men in all their shitty ways but it's difficult not to.
I'm strong, mentally, and I will tell a bloke to leave me alone, but where does it get me?
Alone!
And it's such an uphill struggle to make boys aware of their shortcomings. And an even bigger struggle to get them to do something about them.
I KNOW it sounds defeatist, as well as a bit ridiculous, but afaic boys or men merely have items I want for a particular kind of short-term fun. Girls or women have the brains (and bodies really) for intelligence and long-term fun.
I'm sure I could put that better but I know what I mean!

coxesorangepippin · 31/03/2025 01:48

Because ultimately, they're selfish

That's the bottom line

CookingFatCat · 31/03/2025 02:00

For years women have been conditioned to get a boyfriend, get a husband. It’s like the rest of your life can be a shower of shite, you can be the most horrible person ever but if a man has chosen you, you are winning in life. 😂🧐

its going to take a lot to undo all that.
That’s just one aspect.

DunnoMate · 31/03/2025 06:10

@NPET I know what you mean. Women need men less and less. We don’t depend on them like 1950s housewives anymore at society level.

But at the same time as @CookingFatCat says we’re coming out of generations of thinking we do need them and that they might be a good cook/dad/shag/earner so therefore we can accept/compromise/sacrifice/settle in other areas.

The narrative is that “men don’t think like that” or “typical man” just reinforces things.

OP posts:
Winifredtabago · 31/03/2025 07:50

DunnoMate · 31/03/2025 06:10

@NPET I know what you mean. Women need men less and less. We don’t depend on them like 1950s housewives anymore at society level.

But at the same time as @CookingFatCat says we’re coming out of generations of thinking we do need them and that they might be a good cook/dad/shag/earner so therefore we can accept/compromise/sacrifice/settle in other areas.

The narrative is that “men don’t think like that” or “typical man” just reinforces things.

It's just a case of finding the right one- if you want a man in your life. If you dont need a man then great.

ssd · 31/03/2025 09:21

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 20:23

Something this year has snapped though. Maybe it’s age, probably it’s hormones but as I say, my tolerance is on its way out and I’m realizing that I’ve been part of the problem. This has been a wake up call for me. And I’m calling him out on it. We’ve had a lot of chats recently where I’ve said I can’t unsee this shit now and whilst I’m terribly sorry that this may feel like the goalposts are shifting, I will not accept it.

In any case, this thread isn’t about me specifically but more of a general rant given all the women out there disappointed and wondering how as a society we can un-do this. How have we got to the point where we have to point it out to men? WHY have we accepted this piss-poor thoughtlessness?

you accepted piss poor thoughtlessness. I didn't. Stop generalising.

Gelatibon · 31/03/2025 09:31

I generally object in the strongest terms to women being blamed for the behviour of men, I mean that makes no sense at all, of course men are responsible.

However, I have noticed something concerning in my sons' girlfriends and, actually the GFs' mothers too. I was determined to raise with my boys not to be useless husbands. From very young they were involved in chores at home and now n their early 20s they pull their weight probably do more HW than I do in our home. They are more than capable and willing. However, the GFs seem to want to fuss and baby them. When a DS "forgets" to do something, his GF and her mother will be all "what are you like", "aww bless you for being a useless man" and do it for him. He wouldn't dream of behaving like that with me, and I'm embarrassed that he does it with them, but they are "teaching" him that's what they want/expect from him.

DenholmElliot11 · 31/03/2025 09:33

Comedycook · 30/03/2025 20:07

I honestly don't know why you even care if he acknowledged his own mother on mother's day...I wouldn't have even reminded him.

Yes this. I think it's odd you even cared about that.

Have you got a nice group of girlfriends that you hang out with and do stuff with?

Winifredtabago · 31/03/2025 10:12

Gelatibon · 31/03/2025 09:31

I generally object in the strongest terms to women being blamed for the behviour of men, I mean that makes no sense at all, of course men are responsible.

However, I have noticed something concerning in my sons' girlfriends and, actually the GFs' mothers too. I was determined to raise with my boys not to be useless husbands. From very young they were involved in chores at home and now n their early 20s they pull their weight probably do more HW than I do in our home. They are more than capable and willing. However, the GFs seem to want to fuss and baby them. When a DS "forgets" to do something, his GF and her mother will be all "what are you like", "aww bless you for being a useless man" and do it for him. He wouldn't dream of behaving like that with me, and I'm embarrassed that he does it with them, but they are "teaching" him that's what they want/expect from him.

Yes I see evidence of that too. I know someone who is like a manager to their husband - planning out his days, what he needs to do, stuff to remind him about. He is a perfectly competent man but she seems to actually thrive off being in control like that. Then you can imagine 20 years down the line she will complain and ask why her husband is so useless. But her partner has just basically taken on that role that she has created for him. He will live his life that way then be bamboozled when she suddenly has a go at him for it 20 years later.

Imgoingtobefree · 31/03/2025 10:40

I absolutely and totally agree with you.

I also had a big change of heart when I hit the menopause (loss of oestrogen as the caring hormone?) and started seeing all the shit I put up with.

I sincerely believe that most women are more caring (blame hormone oestrogen) and many men are just more selfish (blame hormone testosterone).

Im now divorced and intend to live a man-free life.

Daisyvodka · 31/03/2025 10:46

Because the patriarchy has successfully branded women having any wants or needs as 'high maintenance' - so successfully, floods of women fall over themselves on mothers day or birthday threads to tell OPs that they dont care about celebrations and therefore OP is incredibly demanding, shallow and probably only wanting a fuss due to 'social media'. Romantic relationships and dynamics within them are so fucked by years of women being treated like 2nd class citizens even by the men that 'love' them, that even women have been convinced that having any needs at all is unreasonable and anyone wanting more must be pulled down at all costs. You must be an individual, look after yourself, be true to who you are - unless that involves asking anything of a man beyond 'don't beat or cheat on me'.
So many threads on 'people have too high standards' without acknowledging that we are all different, and high standards to one person may be bare minimum to another and that is actually okay. People talk about how social media has made people shallow and image obsessed, conveniently forgetting that single mothers continue to be villianised, that people have for centuries been asking their children not to embarrass them in front of the vicar and pretending your second cousin Enid moved away because she moved in with a woman and that cousin Brian died when he's actually in an institution...
Then when you wake up and realise you have been taken for granted, you are told that its your fault and it's unreasonable to expect someone to change, instead of people acknowledging that we have been indoctrinated and in many cases conditioned by our own upbringing to not even realise we are accepting a life we don't actually want. It's seen as something important to stay in a relationship - why. It's seen as something important to keep a family together 'for the kids' because your best mate Kathy's ex ruined his kids lives with his behaviour after the breakup (ignoring the fact that it was due to his BEHAVIOUR that his kids lives were ruined, not because Kathy no longer consented to an intimate relationship with him)
It's exhausting.

Winifredtabago · 31/03/2025 11:01

It sounds exhausting!

Lovelyview · 31/03/2025 11:18

I can't quite believe I'm posting this on a feminism board but have a think about love languages before you write off all men. People express love in different ways and with a limited experience of men (my husband) I'd say he's definitely on the side of acts of service as his preferred way of expressing his love for me. Fortunately, neither of us is bothered by gifts. I'm more words of affirmation. Both of us appreciate quality time and touch. If you're in a relationship then you need to understand if someone is showing affection in a different way to the way you understand it. Obviously, it's best to try and mirror what makes people feel appreciated rather than sticking with what you appreciate for yourself but it's also good to appreciate affection offered in the way the giver understands it.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/five-love-languages.html

The 5 Love Languages Explained

5 Love Languages: How to Receive and Express Love

The 5 Love Languages refer to five ways people express and experience emotional affection in relationships. Understanding these languages can benefit any relationship by ensuring partners effectively communicate care in a way most meaningful to each ot...

https://www.simplypsychology.org/five-love-languages.html

ginasevern · 31/03/2025 11:42

Comedycook · 30/03/2025 20:07

I honestly don't know why you even care if he acknowledged his own mother on mother's day...I wouldn't have even reminded him.

You actually can't see why the OP would care about a woman who's been close family for 20 years. The woman that gave birth to her husband and who shares DNA with her own children? You wouldn't give a fuck if she was hurt? Wow. Great way to make this shit and self absorbed world just a little bit shitier.

Triffid1 · 31/03/2025 11:45

OP, I hear you. My theory, which I'm still struggling to articulate, is that as we've tried to bring in more equality and changes in society, somehow, the outcome has been warped.

The example I think about a lot is the way I was brought up. I grew up in the 80s, in South Africa. So I think you can understand that it was largely quite a conservative "traditional" upbringing. Lots of my friends' mums DID work, but the dads were the main breadwinners and tended to have more traditional 9-5 type jobs while the women worked part time, around school hours etc. The mums absolutely did all the mental load around children and household stuff etc.

So far, so traditional and "bad".

Except, the expectations for Dads were still actually very high. No, they didn't do the cooking and the cleaning and they weren't there after school to collect us and they didn't volunteer for the PTA. That's all 100% true. But they DID do things like:
-- Hand over money and cash in the form of pocket money, allowances, household expenditures. My dad and other dads I knew well were far less likely to have "nice" stuff as their wives and children were the priority (except cars. haha. They always had the nice car!).
-- Do ALL the dirty/difficult/dangerous jobs. They took out bins. They schlepped things to the skip, they set up tents and moved mattresses for sleepovers, they did the late night pick ups from parties or the emergency late night shopping trip, they managed the garden and the pool (a bigger job in South Africa than any garden I've had here, obviously). They might not have done the shopping, but they absolutely were the ones carrying it in from the car and doing the unloading. They supported their children's sports teams as assistant coaches, providing lifts etc. They did the school run in the morning on their way to work. They were home every night after work and helped with homework, bedtime and story time. Dads were the ones who took us to the park and taught us to ride our bikes on Saturday afternoons. They taught us to swim. They taught us to braai Grin. They took us camping, and did all the work of setting up those campsites. They were just AROUND all the time and actively involved, if not in the same way that our mothers were. And this was true for ALL of my friends. I knew ALL of their dads becuase they were just THERE. They were the ones keeping an eye on us in the pool when we were younger while my friend's mums were making snacks in the kitchen. They had their roster for late-night party pick ups and we knew that Mary's dad would let us put the roof down but Dave's dad had the best sound system. My dad taught half of my friends to drive. My friend "Kate"'s dad talked to me about books I'd never heard of and encouraged me to read them.

My point is that they were 100% around and doing their bit. And certainly, for things like mothers days and birthdays, there were absolutely expected to step it up - whether that was spending money on thoughtful gifts or helping the children to celebrate.

It was like a source of pride for a m an to have a healthy, happy wife and family - if he provided and treated them right, that made him look GOOD in the community.

And yet somehow, in our fight for equality, somehow, we've gone backwards. It's like women have taken on MORE to be more equal, to have more say, but men have taken on LESS.

exBIL was a classic example. He did a brilliant job of convincing PIL that SIL was the problem. And they would often bemoan that she didn't make enough effort eg cooking him meals or whatever. But it didn't seem to occur to them that while they were upset she wasn't doing the "Traditional" things for him, he wasn't doing them for her either.

And it's infuriating. It's like expectations for men have gone downhill, as expectations for women have gone up.

pearbottomjeans · 31/03/2025 11:47

Winifredtabago · 30/03/2025 20:05

Well unfortunately you did put up with it and tolerate it for 20 plus years. I guess all you can do is try to make sure any younger women you know dont do the same.

I hate to agree with this but I think I do. Expect what you accept. Yeah that’s putting it back on a woman, but also, you’re only in charge of yourself. If you’re not happy with something, speak up, or it won’t change. And if you have boys, raise them better.

NPET · 31/03/2025 11:51

DunnoMate · 31/03/2025 06:10

@NPET I know what you mean. Women need men less and less. We don’t depend on them like 1950s housewives anymore at society level.

But at the same time as @CookingFatCat says we’re coming out of generations of thinking we do need them and that they might be a good cook/dad/shag/earner so therefore we can accept/compromise/sacrifice/settle in other areas.

The narrative is that “men don’t think like that” or “typical man” just reinforces things.

Yes a better way of putting it than I did! A "shag" is what I want - everything else I can get from my "galmates". And that's sad, but definitely true!