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Feminism: chat

Men and their shitness

45 replies

DunnoMate · 30/03/2025 19:57

Not sure if this is the right place but I need a rant.

Its partly because of my own marriage to somewhat of a manchild but my tolerance of feckless thoughtless men is really starting to dwindle.

So many threads on here from disappointed women every year on Mother’s Day, and several throughout the year re forgotten or underwhelming birthdays. My DH is a nice guy but seems to be oblivious that he could play a part in making someone feel special. Despite my reminders he did nothing for MIL today and only called her at 6pm. Because she said “oh don’t worry” he thinks it’s all fine. But I don’t think it is fine. It’s shit that he puts in fuck all effort. Actions do speak louder than words after all.

It’s really not hard to sort something different or nice to acknowledge these few “special days” that happen throughout the year. Ok I get the commercial bullshit side but it can be fun too. It doesn’t have to be extravagant or expensive, and clearly some blokes have the emotional intelligence to make it a nice day but pretty sure these are the minority.

How the fuck are we in this situation where men get away with this lameness. How is it ok? Why wouldn’t you WANT to make someone you love feel special or acknowledged or appreciated??

caveat - we live abroad and its not MD here. And over 20+ years in to this relationship, I’m still frequently disappointed by DH’s lack of effort on special days. He’s a “nice guy” but making someone feel special just doesn’t enter his radar. I’m cross with myself for putting up with it, I’m cross with MIL expecting nothing, I’ve tried not to care and lower my expectations but then think why the fuck should I, why the fuck should we, women, tolerate this shitness?

OP posts:
Danglinglights · 31/03/2025 11:54

I did read somewhere that when we start to go into perimenopause/menopause in our fifties we lose the hormone which is our caring hormone. I am not sure if this is correct (maybe someone else might know) but I also heard a radio 4 programme where women had raised families and just left their husbands in their fifties. They’d just had enough. I do think there’s something in this.

It’s OK saying you could have left 20 years ago, often it takes women years to find their voice and confidence and this is the time it happens.

My daughter is really independent and seems to be much more clues up on men and life than I ever was in the 80s.

OP have a rant. It’s fine by me.

Saltedcarameltiramisucheesecake · 31/03/2025 12:02

Whilst we are surrounded in every shop in this country by reminders of these "special days" cards, chocolates, small gifts, its so easy and cheap (£1 daffs, anyone?) to make a caring gesture, to just not bother seems very lazy indeed. It's not hard at all to show appreciation and care.

YourBestFriend · 31/03/2025 12:04

Not everyone is the same. I find the whole MD, FD, SV and so on, a bloody nuisance.

Daisyvodka · 31/03/2025 12:13

Lovelyview · 31/03/2025 11:18

I can't quite believe I'm posting this on a feminism board but have a think about love languages before you write off all men. People express love in different ways and with a limited experience of men (my husband) I'd say he's definitely on the side of acts of service as his preferred way of expressing his love for me. Fortunately, neither of us is bothered by gifts. I'm more words of affirmation. Both of us appreciate quality time and touch. If you're in a relationship then you need to understand if someone is showing affection in a different way to the way you understand it. Obviously, it's best to try and mirror what makes people feel appreciated rather than sticking with what you appreciate for yourself but it's also good to appreciate affection offered in the way the giver understands it.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/five-love-languages.html

This is a very thoughtful, balanced post, but unfortunately you see on a lot of threads 'your other half's love language is clearly not the same as yours' and the expectation is then that the OP should just learn to accept this, thereby doing all the emotional work so that her partner doesn't have to do anything different at all! Which doesn't seem entirely fair or healthy.
Plus, it normally comes with a story about how OP expressed to their partner that they were sad not to receive a birthday card, and the partner responding with 'cards are pointless' and i always think... I think it's actually pretty cruel (and strange) that you'd react to the person you love telling you that if you bought them a £2 card and wrote 'I love you' in it, with essentially 'i can't be bothered' - life can be very tough and stale and busy, and if someone handed me a cheap, quick opportunity on a plate to make my partner feel loved then I'd try and grab it, even if i didn't see the point in it myself - isn't part of the point of being together that you want to make the other person happy? The idea that you instead would expect the other person to be content with your idea of happiness, not theirs, is very strange to me.

Triffid1 · 31/03/2025 12:53

Daisyvodka · 31/03/2025 12:13

This is a very thoughtful, balanced post, but unfortunately you see on a lot of threads 'your other half's love language is clearly not the same as yours' and the expectation is then that the OP should just learn to accept this, thereby doing all the emotional work so that her partner doesn't have to do anything different at all! Which doesn't seem entirely fair or healthy.
Plus, it normally comes with a story about how OP expressed to their partner that they were sad not to receive a birthday card, and the partner responding with 'cards are pointless' and i always think... I think it's actually pretty cruel (and strange) that you'd react to the person you love telling you that if you bought them a £2 card and wrote 'I love you' in it, with essentially 'i can't be bothered' - life can be very tough and stale and busy, and if someone handed me a cheap, quick opportunity on a plate to make my partner feel loved then I'd try and grab it, even if i didn't see the point in it myself - isn't part of the point of being together that you want to make the other person happy? The idea that you instead would expect the other person to be content with your idea of happiness, not theirs, is very strange to me.

I so agree with this.

I will never forget staying with my parents for a few months when my brother and his new wife came to stay for a few days. My dad had made a tray of tea for the two of them but as he went to take it upstairs, my brother came into the kitchen. So my dad went to hand him the tray, saying, "Oh, I made tea - you can take it up to DW" and my brother basically said no.
My dad said to me a bit later "if you can't be bothered to do something nice for your wife in the early days before things get hard, how will you cope when love is tough?".

I so agree with that.

Triffid1 · 31/03/2025 13:04

I also think on that love language issue - I thought the whole point of understanding someone else's love language was so that YOU could then adapt to provide them with what THEY need.

DuskyPink1984 · 31/03/2025 13:15

'I’m cross with MIL expecting nothing.'

Why do you feel cross with your MIL for 'expecting nothing'? You live oversees and your DH called his mum to wish her a Happy Mother's Day. I imagine that speaking to him meant a lot to her. It may well have made her day. Perhaps she doesn't expect or need anything on Mother's Day. This is his mother, their Mother's Day is between them.

DunnoMate · 31/03/2025 14:40

Then when you wake up and realise you have been taken for granted, you are told that its your fault and it's unreasonable to expect someone to change, instead of people acknowledging that we have been indoctrinated and in many cases conditioned by our own upbringing to not even realise we are accepting a life we don't actually want.

This articulates what I was trying to say. Like it's beyond my fault, its beyond DHs fault, it's a bigger thing.

For sure I can see that I've accepted and tolerated stuff that I would not want my own kids to tolerate. But it's never black and white is it? My DH has good bits and I love him.

...as we've tried to bring in more equality and changes in society, somehow, the outcome has been warped....It's like expectations for men have gone downhill, as expectations for women have gone up.

This too. I think the expectations women are allowed to have has changed, but hasn't evolved at the same pace that society (or men?) has.

It’s OK saying you could have left 20 years ago, often it takes women years to find their voice and confidence and this is the time it happens.

Yes this for me has been it. Not necessarily my voice or confidence but I think I'd been putting the "blame" on DH, without realising that I was just as much part of the problem. I was allowing it, enabling it even, and to an extent, putting up with it. I booked the "nice day out plans" for my own birthday because I knew he wouldn't. He didn't because he knew he didn't have to. I did more because he did less, and he did less because I did more. I compensated instead of challenging it. And I felt like that was the sacrifice I'd have to make, but now, 20 years in, I'm a point where I'm thinking fuck that, where as I didn't feel like that before.

...life can be very tough and stale and busy, and if someone handed me a cheap, quick opportunity on a plate to make my partner feel loved then I'd try and grab it, even if i didn't see the point in it myself

And this is why I cared that DH acknowledged his mum on MD. She's has a horribly tough time for various reasons over the past few years, and he can't even do an online flower order for her, or stick a card in the post, or do a moonpig. She says she doesn't mind but this is the least confrontational woman ever. She has put her needs at the bottom of the list for their family for years. She might not "mind" but I'm pretty sure she would've been happy and it might've cheered her up if he'd made more of an effort.

Why do you feel cross with your MIL for 'expecting nothing'?
For the reasons above. She deserves better. She deserves some acknowledgement. Because her saying "not to worry" gives DH a pass. He thinks "phew I got away with it" and he can park it and move on. She doesn't expect more because she knows. By lowering her expectations, she reinforces that she's not important. She expects less, he does less. He does less, so she expects less. Same shit.

OP posts:
deydododatdodontdeydo · 31/03/2025 15:03

Women are conditioned to be people pleasers and men are not.
Break your programming!
It's up to DH whether he does something for his mum or not, I leave him to it.
My girl and boy didn't do much for me, but they made small gestures which I appreciated.
Personally I don't really like these forced celebrations, and they know that.

S0CKPUPPET · 31/03/2025 15:36

Triffid1 · 31/03/2025 13:04

I also think on that love language issue - I thought the whole point of understanding someone else's love language was so that YOU could then adapt to provide them with what THEY need.

This. Somehow it’s been turned into

“ women, you must give men what they want and how they want it so they feel loved “ and

“ women must accept that men are showing affection in the way that matters to then so STFU and be grateful “.

DuskyPink1984 · 31/03/2025 16:45

‘do you feel cross with your MIL for 'expecting nothing'?

@DunnoMate
For the reasons above. She deserves better. She deserves some acknowledgement. Because her saying "not to worry" gives DH a pass. He thinks "phew I got away with it" and he can park it and move on. She doesn't expect more because she knows. By lowering her expectations, she reinforces that she's not important. She expects less, he does less. He does less, so she expects less. Same shit.’

Lot of assumptions there. She may feel genuinely delighted that he called and just happy that he’s happy and healthy. Some people know what’s truly important in life.

DunnoMate · 31/03/2025 17:23

Yes indeed, I can't deny there are some assumptions, but I think it's also safe to bet that if DH had made a little bit more effort it would've brought a little bit of joy to her day.

I simply don't understand that if you've got the power to make someone feel loved or appreciated, why you wouldn't do it?

OP posts:
Deathraystare · 01/04/2025 12:54

NPET · 31/03/2025 00:37

Sorry to hear what you say but feel free to rant.
I'm 21 and I'm TRYING not to accept men in all their shitty ways but it's difficult not to.
I'm strong, mentally, and I will tell a bloke to leave me alone, but where does it get me?
Alone!
And it's such an uphill struggle to make boys aware of their shortcomings. And an even bigger struggle to get them to do something about them.
I KNOW it sounds defeatist, as well as a bit ridiculous, but afaic boys or men merely have items I want for a particular kind of short-term fun. Girls or women have the brains (and bodies really) for intelligence and long-term fun.
I'm sure I could put that better but I know what I mean!

But surely you should not settle for 2nd/3rd/4th best. We ae no longer in the times of Elizabeth Bennet et al who HAD to marry someone. Ok you would probably like to have a good guy as a partner/husband (rumours say they still exist and aren't all married off!!) but I really think women should not be desperate and install in themselves plenty of self worth and not be too eager to rush into a relationship with a man child waving more red flags than at Moscow. Especially if she already has kids. I could weep when I read of women who quickly grab another man when they divorce and put up with appalling behaviour to themselves and their children.

NPET · 01/04/2025 14:12

No, I'm sorry if my post made it sound as if I'm "settling".
As I tried to say without being too obviously "rude", I want/need a d*ck (tho a vibe is acceptable), but that is ALL I'm wanting!
Girls (sorry, women, but I and my mates call ourselves girls or gals) can provide everything else and I'm happy that they do.

Winifredtabago · 01/04/2025 22:07

NPET · 01/04/2025 14:12

No, I'm sorry if my post made it sound as if I'm "settling".
As I tried to say without being too obviously "rude", I want/need a d*ck (tho a vibe is acceptable), but that is ALL I'm wanting!
Girls (sorry, women, but I and my mates call ourselves girls or gals) can provide everything else and I'm happy that they do.

Edited

As long as you are ok with men who just want a woman for her pussy.

Samora · 02/04/2025 02:42

I'm amazed by all these moaning threads, do people ever communicate with their men, or simply go into marriages blind, then moan online because they were never made to feel special in years?

Lovelyview · 02/04/2025 12:49

I've been thinking about this thread a lot and I think dismissing men as shit because they aren't interested in a particular social performance is too reductive. When I married my husband I made it clear that I wasn't going to be responsible for his large family's birthday cards or buying their Christmas presents. This meant that none of his family get birthday cards apart from his mother (they don't bother with us either). The presents he got are not what I'd choose but they're his responsibility (thankfully all that side of the family have agreed not to bother any more) If you think your mother in law should be getting a mother's day card then you sort it out. This year I bought a card for my mil and my husband wrote it (I signed it) and he posted it. She's my mil and I wanted her to have a card. My husband expresses his love by fixing things and bringing me cups of tea in the morning. If he started demanding I fix things and bring him cups of tea to express my love for him I'd feel he was trying to impose his idea of love on me. I would really resent it.

LadyGrey25 · 07/04/2025 15:13

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GeorgianaM · 07/04/2025 16:09

I don't recognise any of the awful male behaviours I see written about in here. My mother wouldn't have put up with awful behaviour from my dad and neither would my sisters and I from our husbands.

The women that post about these ghastly men should take some responsibility for their poor choices in men and for staying with them once they realise the behaviour is unacceptable.

Twenty years you have accepted his behaviour! That's down to you.

Liz1tummypain · 08/04/2025 10:53

My son - if only discussing men's behaviour on mother's day- was a real sweetie to me on mother's day. My husband sent his mum a card. He generally sends flowers but he's not been well and has other issues this year. I don't expect more from my kids and you doubt my MIL does. It's just a commercial fest.

Pic of a pot mum given to his mum.

Men and their shitness
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