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Feminism: chat

Shariah divorce - recent thread and now article in The Times - ‘I must pay my husband ransom to divorce’

40 replies

Another2Cats · 19/12/2024 09:33

So, I was struck by a thread that I came across yesterday "Positive test yesterday, Islamic divorce today":

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/pregnancy/5233026-positive-test-yesterday-islamic-divorce-today

which left me amazed that people just have a religious marriage without also having a legal one.

Then, entirely coincidentally, there was an article in todays Times which shows that this is really quite widespread.

This is the Times article with a share token:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/00986a27-c06a-4f98-a7b7-b3d90c4cf0c3?shareToken=312474580d7f8eeec6fb69b240cfd7a7

Women trapped by sharia: ‘I must pay my husband ransom to divorce’

About 100,000 marriages in the UK are believed to fall under the authority of sharia councils, also known as courts
.

After suffering an onslaught of psychological abuse from her husband and increasingly unhappy in her marriage, Aisha finally decided she wanted a divorce.

There was one problem, however: her husband refused to allow it unless she paid him a five-figure sum covering all the money he spent on her during their marriage.

She offered instead to return her rings but he demanded the money they cost, a sum of thousands of pounds she could not afford.

“I feel like I have to pay ransom to get out of my marriage,” she told The Times.

Welcome to sharia, British style.

Because an Islamic marriage allows polygamy and permits only men to divorce at will, Aisha faces being trapped forever while her husband takes on new brides. The marriage was not officially registered so Aisha has no recourse to English law.

Aisha’s wedding was among 100,000 Islamic marriages estimated to have taken place in Britain and falling under the religious authority of sharia councils, also known as courts.

An investigation by The Times into the use of sharia in Britain has also found:
• A British sharia council states that husbands may dispose of their wives instantly by saying “divorce” three times, a practice banned in many countries in the Muslim world.
• Muslims are being encouraged by another sharia council to download a mobile phone app that creates sharia-compliant wills where daughters inherit half as much as sons.
• The app, aimed at users in England and Wales, has a drop-down menu for men to specify how many wives they have, up to four.
• Women are being asked to disclose when they had their last period in order to get a divorce.
• One of the country’s most prominent sharia councils was founded by a scholar who said men should not be questioned over why they hit their wives.

Britain is seen as the western capital for sharia councils, the informal guardians of religious law over the country’s fast-growing Muslim population.

Home to the first such institution in Europe in 1982, Britain is now expanding sharia services to Muslims overseas.

The Council of Europe, which protects human rights, has expressed concern about Britain’s sharia councils — estimated to number as many as 85 — discriminating against women, and the social pressure upon Muslims to use them.
.

The women

Aisha (not her real name), who is in her twenties, was appalled when Dewsbury’s sharia council entertained her husband’s requests for compensation before setting her free.

Since she lacked the thousands of pounds requested, her husband offered to let her pay in instalments.

“Until I’m officially divorced Islamically, I still believe that I’m married to my husband. It’s hard to comprehend that I’m having to pay this amount just for something that’s spiritual.”

She remains in the marriage but is receiving help from Apna Haq, a women’s support group.

Another woman who struggled to divorce is Shakilla Malik, 45, from Manchester. She told the Karma Nirvana charity she suffered 13 years of domestic violence after being forced at 16 to marry a cousin in Pakistan.

She said the Dewsbury sharia council kept her waiting nearly three years for a divorce when her husband’s brother became involved.

“He wrote a letter to them saying that what a good dad his brother is, what a good husband he’s been, what a good person he was, [that] he prays five times a day,” she said. “This had nothing to do with my brother-in-law. They shouldn’t have given him the time of day.”

The Dewsbury sharia council said: “We understand that emotions can run high and that outcomes may not always meet everyone’s expectations, but our role is to guide couples towards constructive dialogue and decisions.”

A mother in the Midlands obtained a civil divorce after a decades-long arranged marriage to a cousin she wed as a teenager during a visit to Pakistan.

“In our culture and religion, if you don’t get divorced Islamically they say you’re still married. I wanted an Islamic divorce. I went to find somebody in the community … connected to the mosque,” she said.

The go-between made an indecent proposition that she should enter into a “mut’a”, a temporary religiously sanctioned union, sometimes branded a “pleasure marriage” because it enables couples to have sex and then part.

“Apart from my husband, no man has ever touched me. I sobbed my heart out when this guy proposed this to me,” she said.

The woman, in her forties, explained how some Muslim men such as her ex-husband use religiosity to exert patriarchal control over women.

He would demand sex, citing a hadith about Muhammad requiring wives to agree to intercourse even if on a camel’s back or saddle. The saying is used by some scholars to argue that there is no concept of marital rape in Islam.

Tanya Walker, a Tehran-born academic, explained in her book Sharia Councils and Muslim Women in Britain that some women used the councils due to community pressures. One woman said “religion is not important to me”. Another believed in God but not Islam and hated Islamic religious authorities.
.

‘Divorce, divorce, divorce’

While Muslim women in Britain struggle to obtain divorces under sharia, the same is not true for men.

The Birmingham sharia council, part of the Birmingham Mosque Trust charity, explains on its website the concept of pronouncing talaq, the Arabic word for “divorce”. When declared by a husband, it effectively means “I divorce you”.

The council states online: “Men can divorce their wives unilaterally by pronouncing talaq three times either consecutively or on three separate occasions, depending on the Islamic school of thought by which the married couple abide.”

The Times asked Birmingham sharia council why it told couples that Muslim men may divorce in this way when the practice has been banned by 23 countries with large Muslim populations. They include Egypt, Pakistan, Bangladesh and India.

Amra Bone, a panel member, said: “Thank you for highlighting the point on the website. It needs to be explained further that three talaq in one sitting is sinful etc.”

Triple talaq is rejected by prominent Islamic thinkers and scholars. Praising the abolition of the practice in Morocco, Ziauddin Sardar, a former British equality and human rights commissioner and author of Mecca: The Sacred City, described the custom as an absurd convention that had generated much abuse. The Islamic Sharia Council, based in Leyton, east London, told parliament that it refused to accept the validity of triple talaq, which existed in some Muslim communities, as it contradicted all Islamic guidelines regarding divorce.

Khola Hasan, one of the council’s scholars, said: “Triple talaq is really common among the Asian community in Britain.”
.

The article is very long and goes on from here, the above is about half of it. It was interesting to read that Islamic rules vary between countries

Women trapped by sharia: ‘I must pay my husband ransom to divorce’

About 100,000 marriages in the UK are believed to fall under the authority of sharia councils, also known as courts

https://www.thetimes.com/article/00986a27-c06a-4f98-a7b7-b3d90c4cf0c3?shareToken=312474580d7f8eeec6fb69b240cfd7a7

OP posts:
floormops · 20/12/2024 04:58

I am not at all surprised to see that this is Dewsbury - I guessed as soon as I saw the title of the post.
A few decades ago I would have said that education would be the way to support and empower women and deal with this, but now, what is taught in schools is pretty tightly controlled by the local community and is limited by religious and cultural beliefs. Teachers walk on eggshells, as do local government and all public services.
I know a lovely young woman working in a public service organisation. Well educated, well dressed, responsible job. A couple of years ago she was subject to an arranged marriage abroad to a cousin, from her family's home town. She came back to work completely covered, pale and sad looking. The husband moved to UK, he doesn't speak English, doesn't work, has no intention of doing so. He does nothing, she works and does everything else. It is shameful, but very common. I have no idea what can be done.

Changingplace · 20/12/2024 08:17

A few decades ago I would have said that education would be the way to support and empower women and deal with this, but now, what is taught in schools is pretty tightly controlled by the local community and is limited by religious and cultural beliefs. Teachers walk on eggshells, as do local government and all public services.

Is this true? This is terrifying if so, schools and public services in the UK should be openly allowed to teach what is legally true in this country.

Imnobody4 · 20/12/2024 10:24

Answer to question in parliament 2017.
28 June 2017
In England there are 27 publicly-funded schools (i.e. local authority maintained schools and academies, including free schools) having a designated religious character as Muslim; and 148 independent schools registered as having a religious ethos of Muslim or Islam, or having a designated religious character of Muslim or Islam (or both). ^The Department for Education does not regulate madrassahs or other out-of-school education settings and does not hold a complete record their numbers.
The quality of teaching in Muslim schools in England is inspected by Ofsted or one of the independent inspectorates approved by the Secretary of State.
All publicly funded schools must teach English to pupils up to the age of 16. English is both a subject in its own right and the medium for teaching in the vast majority of circumstances. The statutory independent school standards require that pupils acquire speaking, listening, literacy and numeracy skills. While independent schools are not required to teach in the medium of English, the standards require that where they do not, lessons in written and spoken English are provided.
The Department has no plans to legislate further to require schools to teach in the medium of English. The Department launched a call for evidence setting out proposals for a new system for regulating out-of-school education settings providing intensive education, but this did not suggest that they should be required to teach in English.^

This is without the pressure put on mainstream schools in areas with large Muslim communities.

bombastix · 20/12/2024 12:14

Religious freedom is all too often the licensing of men to control women. Sharia law has no place in the UK and these coercive arrangements should be banned. As for Orthodox Judaism I barely think it is better. Regressive ideas about the status of girls from birth.

The UK shouldn’t tolerate it. Just because the majority of us are not religious, doesn’t mean that this is acceptable.

turbonerd · 25/12/2024 12:58

eightIsNewNine · 20/12/2024 04:26

Why can't she just ignore him or say "divorce, divorce, divorce" and walk away? They were never legally married, he doesn't have any real hold over her.
If anyone bothers her about a non-binding religious ceremony, police should act.

Yes, she can turn the tables on him with relative ease; voila, we are now divorced.

It is not actually easy, I’m aware, but at the same time it is really just as easy as that.
It is a «luftslott» (a castle made of air) so only real if you believe in it. The moment you stop believeing it vanishes in a puff of nothing.

Batmanisaplaceinturkey · 25/12/2024 13:21

I thought it had been while since I saw a Muslim and Islam bashing thread and here we are.
That Times article is a comedy, using one Woman's experience as typical 😆.
I've got a shariah law marriage btw. Not oppressed thanks (not that you thinly veiled Islamophobic saddos give a shit)

SidhuVicious · 25/12/2024 16:33

If she's not legally married then she's not married. End of. Time to just leave the prick.

Changingplace · 25/12/2024 18:47

SidhuVicious · 25/12/2024 16:33

If she's not legally married then she's not married. End of. Time to just leave the prick.

I agree in theory but I do have a sympathy for women who are brought up in a family and community where they are taught (brain washed) that these ideas are ‘law’ and I think the UK government should do more around education across the board to ensure that everyone understands their rights if they live in this country.

eightIsNewNine · 25/12/2024 21:59

The broader issue —unregistered marriages in the UK— points to socio-cultural practices and gaps in legal protection rather than Sharia law. Many women face difficulties because their marriages are not registered under British law, leaving them without legal recourse. Ensuring that religious ceremonies are accompanied by civil registration would provide better protection for both parties.

The question is how to do it.

In my country (central Europe), local islamic marriage isn't recognised either and local imans self-regulate, they just wouldn't do the ceremony without a proof of civil registration.

Turning it into a law, ie. making it illegal, and punish iman who run a religious ceremony without making sure a civil registration happened first would feel a bit heavy handed, but might be necessary.

Gorse · 04/01/2025 13:19

That would make marriage to subsequent wives (an additional three?) impossible.

Gymsharkandcoffee · 04/01/2025 13:23

Why does she need a divorce if it’s not a real legal marriage? Can’t she just leave?

Miffnc · 04/01/2025 13:26

But if it's not a legal marriage in UK law then surely she's just not married? And she should just walk away and she can still remarry? Ad there's no lawful marriage?

UnstableEquilibrium · 04/01/2025 13:52

Miffnc · 04/01/2025 13:26

But if it's not a legal marriage in UK law then surely she's just not married? And she should just walk away and she can still remarry? Ad there's no lawful marriage?

She wouldn't be able to legally marry an observant Muslim man (because he'd refuse). She wouldn't be able to have a remarriage in a mosque. This is a big deal for an observant Muslim woman.

Her "husband" would essentially be forcing her to either give up her religion, which is presumably important to her, or be celibate for the rest of her life.

Sheetsinthewind · 04/01/2025 14:11

username299 · 19/12/2024 09:39

We shouldn't have any religious councils in the UK.

This 😡

ExitPersuedByAMemory · 07/01/2025 01:28

eightIsNewNine · 25/12/2024 21:59

The broader issue —unregistered marriages in the UK— points to socio-cultural practices and gaps in legal protection rather than Sharia law. Many women face difficulties because their marriages are not registered under British law, leaving them without legal recourse. Ensuring that religious ceremonies are accompanied by civil registration would provide better protection for both parties.

The question is how to do it.

In my country (central Europe), local islamic marriage isn't recognised either and local imans self-regulate, they just wouldn't do the ceremony without a proof of civil registration.

Turning it into a law, ie. making it illegal, and punish iman who run a religious ceremony without making sure a civil registration happened first would feel a bit heavy handed, but might be necessary.

@eightIsNewNine That does seem quite heavy-handed. It also raises a broader question: how would this approach apply to other religious communities with similar practices, like orthodox Jewish communities, where the process for a get can leave women in difficult situations? It’s important to ensure that any proposed solution is equitable and considers all communities, rather than focusing on just Muslims.

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