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Feminism: chat

Feminism: sex and gender

Original poster

Craig Charles

72 replies

MagicalMystical · 09/12/2024 08:17

In the light of the culture we have now, can someone explain to me how Craig Charles escaped his now-cleared rape charge in 1995? I can only find articles from the Independent which is behind a paywall. It has let me read this one:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/red-dwarf-actor-led-gangrape-of-woman-in-flat-1574082.html

But I can’t read anything that shows how they decided this didn’t happen.

OP posts:
Original poster
MagicalMystical · 09/12/2024 09:04

@PandoraSox Bloody hell, that long? It needs to get much easier, not harder ffs.

@WomensSports it took 2 years (well done for your endurance) and then got thrown out on the day? Fuck sake, things are definitely moving at a fucking snail’s pace on this. I’m so sorry for your experience.

OP posts:
unmemorableusername · 09/12/2024 09:08

skippy67 · 09/12/2024 08:30

Why are you so bothered by this? After all this time? The victim was "listened to", and found to be lying.

No that's not how it works.

A criminal charge has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Just because there isnt corroborating evidence such as another witness or forensic evidence doesn't mean the victim was lying.

This is why so many women dont report rape. You can't get a conviction if you don't have some further evidence other than the woman's word. The accused will just say she consented. How does a woman prove beyond reasonable doubt she didn't? In what is usually a location where only the two of them are present?

As for this particular case it's been forgotten by the tv/media companies who have been happy to employ him since.

If he or the police actually believed she was lying they could prosecute or sue her for the criminal act of making a false accusation.

This never happened.

Since she's not been charged or convicted it's libellous to call her a liar.

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:08

@MagicalMystical I lost all faith in the justice system when that happened. It's taken a very long time to trust police etc even with basic stuff since then. The CPS decided they didn't think it had a strong enough chance of success. The police were awful throughout. Bastards.

With regards to Craig Charles, I saw him do stand up quite a few years ago and he was giving off really bad vibes. I'd be very interested in seeing more about whether he got off because she said "oops, wrong bloke" (doubtful) or whether he got off because someone decided that a man's reputation is worth more than a woman's safety.

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:12

It's actually depressing that it's 2024 and there are still people who think that a man is only a rapist if convicted and a woman is only telling the truth if the man gets convicted. 🤢 And of course women who don't report are still demonised.

Excourtclerk · 09/12/2024 09:13

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:08

@MagicalMystical I lost all faith in the justice system when that happened. It's taken a very long time to trust police etc even with basic stuff since then. The CPS decided they didn't think it had a strong enough chance of success. The police were awful throughout. Bastards.

With regards to Craig Charles, I saw him do stand up quite a few years ago and he was giving off really bad vibes. I'd be very interested in seeing more about whether he got off because she said "oops, wrong bloke" (doubtful) or whether he got off because someone decided that a man's reputation is worth more than a woman's safety.

Edited

Having worked in the court service for 7 years and seen many cases that were thrown out, wrong verdict (in my opinion) and frustrated Judges whos hands were tied not to mention corrupt police officers I left because I lost faith and trust in the justice system and did not want to be a part of it anymore. So sorry that you were one of those cases that never got the justice they deserved.

Original poster
MagicalMystical · 09/12/2024 09:13

@WomensSports It really fucking is. As to your point that your case didn’t even go to court through the CPS dropping it due to thinking the case wasn’t strong enough (argh), do women have to go around wearing body cameras now, so we always have the evidence we need?

OP posts:
PandoraSox · 09/12/2024 09:15

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:01

It took from August 2003 to February 2005 for my rape case to come to court from the point of first reporting it. So it's been getting longer for a long time. It just dragged on and on with no end in sight (and then got dropped by CPS on the day); it must be awful for women if it's taking even longer.

Show quote history

I am so sorry you have been let down so badly by the system. It's outrageous.

crackofdoom · 09/12/2024 09:16

I like listening to 6 Music, but it disturbs me that that means I end up listening to CC every day. Because we all know how difficult it is to secure a conviction in rape cases, and how many perpetrators get off scot free. So I will always feel uncomfortable that he's so prominently in the public ear.

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:18

@MagicalMystical Bodycams aren't such an out there idea, it's just the issue of the loss of privacy to gain safety that's the issue. I went to a Tomorrow's World show back in 2000 or 2001 where one stall had these "consent condoms" where they marked fingerprints on the condom wrapper to prove consent. The flaws are very obvious but there is definitely a need for some way of proving rape until men just stop doing it.

TheBestLackAllConviction · 09/12/2024 09:38

Juries do not give reasons for their findings, so it's not always possible to establish why someone was acquitted, though sometimes you can work it out from what happened at the trial (for example, witnesses gave evidence that was inconsistent with their first accounts or with other witnesses, or had a potential motive to lie, or did not appear to recall the events clearly).

TheBestLackAllConviction · 09/12/2024 10:50

it seems the CPS failed to gather evidence in a timely manner so she had no proof and she was branded a liar

The CPS does not gather evidence. The police do that. The CPS then reviews the evidence, and in some cases will recommend further lines of enquiry, but prosecution lawyers can't go out and do the investigation themselves.

HellonHeels · 09/12/2024 12:03

WomensSports · 09/12/2024 09:12

It's actually depressing that it's 2024 and there are still people who think that a man is only a rapist if convicted and a woman is only telling the truth if the man gets convicted. 🤢 And of course women who don't report are still demonised.

Well said.

I'm so sorry and angry for what you went through. Wishing the very best for you Flowers

StMarie4me · 09/12/2024 18:38

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SwordToFlamethrower · 09/12/2024 18:56

Reporting a rape destroys your life. The hell I went through shen I reported mine was worse than the actual rape. Then the cps decided not to take it to court.

So by a lot of your definitions, I'm a liar. Right. Well fuck all of you then.

Original poster
MagicalMystical · 09/12/2024 18:58

@SwordToFlamethrower I believe you

OP posts:
Original poster
MagicalMystical · 09/12/2024 19:01

@SwordToFlamethrower and @WomensSports there’s a pattern emerging. Go through a harrowing few years, only for it to be thrown out. No wonder so few rape cases get to court. 😞

Well done to you both and to anyone else lurking here for using what voice and power was available to you. 💪

OP posts:
soupfiend · 09/12/2024 19:15

Wheres the reporting of the rest of the trial/evidence?

sweetydahling · 09/12/2024 20:11

skippy67 · 09/12/2024 08:30

Why are you so bothered by this? After all this time? The victim was "listened to", and found to be lying.

Are women not allowed to be "bothered" by the thought of a potential rapist walking free? "After all this time" - because, what, there's a time limit on caring about how the justice system treats women?

And to top it off, accusing the woman who brought the case to court of lying. You do realise you're in the feminism section, right?

WishinAndHopin · 10/12/2024 01:26

soupfiend · 09/12/2024 08:20

He was wongly accused wasnt he? Thats what i recall from the time.

It affected his life quite a lot at the time I think I read.

No, he was not. He put out a load of PR puff pieces claiming to be a victim.

SoloSofa24 · 11/12/2024 16:36

I turn off the radio when Craig Charles comes on, which annoys me, because 6Music is the station I listen to the most when driving.

Quite apart from the rape case (I see the outcome as more 'not able to prove beyond reasonable doubt' rather than 'not guilty'), I have also heard stuff about him from contacts in the music business that make me think the nasty, slimy feeling I get from him is not just my imagination. It would not surprise me at all if there are other women out there who might eventually come forward with their stories.

SoloSofa24 · 11/12/2024 16:40

Of course he may be a reformed character now he is apparently no longer drinking or smoking crack, but that doesn't absolve him of blame for stuff in the past.

Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 11/12/2024 16:49

‘ knowing what Prince Andrew did but nothing can be done about it.’

Prince Andrew had consensual sex with a woman who was over the age of consent in the country ( UK) in which it happened.

The fact that he lied about it and made himself look very dodgy is regrettable, but you could say that he has been ‘punished’ by being effectively removed from public life, and ostracised by society and most of his family.

Equating this with gang rape just weakens your case.

Hateam · 11/12/2024 18:28

I think this thread really does show how allegations of rape really do hurt men. Years later they're still being gossiped about and being presumed guilty.

Hateam · 11/12/2024 18:29

SoloSofa24 · 11/12/2024 16:40

Of course he may be a reformed character now he is apparently no longer drinking or smoking crack, but that doesn't absolve him of blame for stuff in the past.

What stuff are you specifically thinking about?