Why are women still enabling men?

[Singleparent78]

Genuine question - why are so many women still enabling men?

I'm in my 50s and flabbergasted at how many men my age are propped up by women who are doing all the domestic work, taking on everything at home and supporting them in their career and the continuation of their hobbies; all this gives men a freedom that means they only have to focus on the things that are important to them. Virtually all my straight male peers are wildly supported by a set up that has them at the centre and it has been thus for 20-30 years so is very normalised in their life, to be the sun around which everything else circles.

All my straight female peers are either single and still slogging it out at work with no domestic support or stepping back from work, playing more of a role to support their DH.

It's very depressing to me that women still continue to enable men to such an extent. Why? Is it social conditioning, is it motivated by financial gain or is it just the way to an easy life? Genuinely interested in people's thoughts about why this continues.

I think it's a mixture of things. Some men change when you have children and leave the drudge work to you. Women are automatically lumbered with childcare, they often go part time to accommodate everything.

Some women automatically take over domestic chores and men let them. In my experience boys are very much cosseted and expect that to continue.

It's what's expected, standards for men are very low. It's male privilege, they see themselves as above 'wife work'. They're enabled.

The only solution, IMO, is to nip it in the bud and have high standards. Don't have children with men who don't respect you.

Incredibly strong societal conditioning, and unfortunately in my experience, mostly from other women.
And the absolute relentless messages we get from society that relationships need work and they all have their issues. Yeah, like you disagree on the types of holidays you want, or how many kids to have, or where to live, those kinds of problems, not 'one person doesn't function as an adult and is happy to let the other person do it all' and 'one person is SOMEHOW sexually attracted to a man who pretends he can't learn how to cook a meal with vegetables in it or operate a washing machine'

This could be said of me and my ex, and the simple answer is that he can’t be reasoned with and if I don’t pick up the slack, my children are the ones who will suffer.

Obviously I left him, but I imagine there are a number of women out there for whom the financial and practical stress of becoming a single mother seems greater than the stress of enabling their husband’s lives.

What @CheekyHobson said. I don’t know if it’s conscious, but my experience is a majority of men, holding down apparently complex and important jobs, seem to lose all domestic competence once their female partner has a small life dependent on her and is effectively trapped.

That’s why equal pay and affordable childcare are so vital. The further we are from them, the more economically trapped we are.

I see this so much with women of different ages. In some cases it's financial - they need two incomes to pay the bills - but it still happens with women who have their own money.

I was involved with an amateur performance group which the husband ran and the wife participated in. He was a bully. He behaved totally unreasonably towards the performers, shouted at them during rehearsals (I walked out at one point) and sulked when things didn't go his way. She is a retired professional on a very good pension, the house is paid for and they have a very lavish lifestyle. When she was asked if she ever challenged his behaviour privately, she said that she didn't. "He has always got his own way. I once disagreed with him and he threatened to walk out, so I just go along with it."

I remember reading a post on here a while back from a wife whose husband had said to her

"Have a got a clean shirt for tomorrow?"

Her reply "I don't know dear. Have you?"

Things start off equal-ish, but ultimately when children come along, men are not interested, and women will not let their children be neglected. So the men do nothing, because anything to do with a child is nothing to do with a man, and the women do everything, because otherwise the children will suffer. There's not really a solution here, is there? I hate it. I hate that my children have grown up in a household where I do everything "just cos", but I suppose it would have been worse for anything to have been left to their dad, because it just wouldn't have got done. I really hope it's better for them (girls), but within a generation not sure it will be.

He's moving out next month, btw. We will all be better off without him. I've often heard it's better for children to have one good parent than one good one and one shit one.

I didn't marry someone like that.
Totally agree. Women should expect more.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3082251-Men-whose-lives-are-facilitated-by-women-how-did-this-happen

Reminds me of this classic thread, facilitated men are all around us

Most women do expect more and in fact even take time to ask and receive assurances before having kids that the work of parenting will be split evenly.

And then once the kid/s arrive, the reality is quite different. And they keep expecting more, and asking for more, but from a far more compromised position. Eventually the stress of arguing becomes more draining than the effort of picking up the slack.

I am in a senior position at work and sit on a number of Boards. Every single man on my executive team bar one has a wife at home who doesn't work and looks after him. Ditto the Boards. The women in these teams/boards are much more diverse and often mixing work, children/parenting etc. It's infuriating how nonchalant these men are about the step up that they have been given. For some it's been 30 years of someone else doing the groceries.

That's my experience in law too. Lots of non-working wives or those who work part time and shoulder owner of the domestic load, leaving the man free to focus on work unencumbered by worrying about whether there is clean school uniform for tomorrow.

"Eventually the stress of arguing becomes more draining than the effort of picking up the slack."

Yes @CheekyHobson and that's why lots of people divorce once their kids are older I guess.

I'm disappointed that the blame appears to be firmly placed with women, as if the problem is solely caused by them.

And including getting the blame for bringing up their sons to be lazy and useless.

Agreed that women should talk with their feet, and hence not enable their men folk to take them for fools, but there should be some recognition and accountability on the menz to stop treating their OH like partners not unpaid skivvies.

Because of the gender pay gap so I might as well work part time and him full time

Becausd men aren't great company due to bad listening and empathy skills so it's better for them to be occupied doing a hobby

Civil Service has a significant number of men in the workforce who share school runs, help with chores, go to school events, do the heavy lifting Inc single father duties.

the organisation is geared up for family life and encouraging balance unlike legal and finance sectors that seems to be in the dark ages.

The whole of society expects women to do the child labour. I was stunned after I had children how everyone would talk to the Mother about any issues with the child in public, even when the Father was standing right there too. When out with a male friend and his daughter, I would be the one spoken to, not him. The mother was automatically assumed by everyone to be the one to sort it or the one who should get the blame and scolding.

It's very depressing to me that women still continue to enable men to such an extent

Its very depressing to me that women still get blamed for men being shit.

Look, some women prefer looking after kids and home to a career. They are making an active positive choice.

Other women, as explained amply on this thread, have men who are shit and leave them to pick up the slack, but guess what? Women don't have magical powers to make these men change their ways, and the cost of living is very, vert high, especially housing, so many women with kids find themselves unable to leave financially. They don't have a good option, so they choose what seems to them to be the least bad.

What makes their situation worse, is knowing that they are blamed by other women as illustrated by the phrase at the top of this post.

I am absolutely fucking sick of men getting a free pass on their behaviour whilst women get blamed for these men's behaviour.

@brightdawnfading You raise some salient points and I do realize that not every women can change a man or leave. But to my mind there are too many women doing the enabling and propping up for this behaviour to be the result of women's lack of choice.

Many women go down the path of enabling men for an easy/easier life which to my mind makes them part of the problem.

You sound as though you don’t actually like women very much.

Why are women as a class so oppressed and powerless globally when we are half the population?

Fear and conditioning. And more fear.

The patriarchy relies on us enforcing it on ourselves and each other, generation after generation.

@CheekyHobson I never said I don't like women. I don't think criticizing the behaviour of some women suggests I don't like women. But gosh there are a lot of women who spend a big chunk of their lives running after men/making men's lives easier.

I think overall it's because very little has changed. We have policies and legislation but no real equality or liberation from men.

In my day to day I find most women can't even talk without apologising.

I think a lot of women don't see a viable alternative. I was lucky in that I had my own money and support network to leave and do it alone but many women don't. After children your options are 'do everything but there's a small chance you may be able to run to the shop or have a short bath before husband starts squawking' of 'do everything yourself'.
Like I said I am lucky to have family to sometimes allow me to go out (once a month and back by ten) or do occasional pick ups but not all do.
I see a lot of women who say 'LTB then he'll have to do half' but there are no powers on earth which will enforce that. My ex moved into unsuitable accommodation and upped his hours at work. He flat out refuses to have them so I can go out, yes it's controlling but I cannot just drop the kids to him, it's not safe to them.
Life on my own is not fantastic. My house is a shit hole, I'm so broke all the time, my children are late and never have the right stuff, I am working until 10-11 at night to catch up on work stuff I missed due to pick up or school plays or sickness. I can see that women who really value those things or a certain standard of living just wouldn't see it as an improvement. But I am happy.
The fact is, when most women say 'I think you need to do more, help more' most men say 'no' and they know we can't or won't leave. It's as simple as that. I sometimes think the whole gender are just less empathetic. Even my son is like it. He's 8!